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TOPIC: Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions...
Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55010
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I picked up an old power lift (vintage CMC PL-65) last weekend, and got it working today. I have a couple questions about using this with my '63 Merc1000.
I want to retain my PT&T. Is that a problem? Anybody know how these babies get wired up? My PT&T uses two solenoids, and it seems to me this thing needs solenoids and/or relays. Any ideas? I have an old simple trim switch that has up and down buttons I thought I could use with this. It has three wires. This power lift motor has three 12 gauge wires, black is ground, blue is up, green is down. Also it has a lift limiter with two wires. What do I do with those wires? Any help would be greatly appreciated! |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55012
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if you dont have the limit switch just hook them together as the switch did.
the switch was always contact them when trimed to the limit it would break open. |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55034
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Well Dave, I know that you know what you're talking about, but the way it's written, I cannot for the life of me figure it out!
I'm still wondering how to wire the power lift. Get a couple solenoids and do it like the PT&T is wired? Somebody much know something about these units! Definitely putting this baby on my Power Cat. Wasn't sure I would, but got to thinking this a.m. about how simple removal of the motor would become in the fall without having to contort my body and about ruin my shoulders getting to nuts under the splashpan and behind the PT&T mount. About kills me. Now everything will be out in the open. I LIKE that idea! Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55054
I was answering your question about wiring this & that you do need a relay yesterday, I also asked if you can use an ohm meter correctly to determine what contacts on the relay are open to make a generic harness correctly you said to me you can handel this, you do it all the time ?? whats the problem Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55058
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Well Michael, I do NOT know how to use an ohm meter. What I'm going to do is wire it just like my trim motor, with a solenoid for up and a solenoid for down. What I meant by "I do it all the time" is I generally do my own wiring. If I can't figure it out myself, I ask.
I can't see where going up with a jack plate is different from going up with a trim unit. I'm going to wire my jack plate just like the trim unit is wired. I'm getting the same solenoids from NAPA that I got for the PT&T. Also (you'd be proud of me), I ordered a kill switch too, NAPA part # 751-1132. Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55059
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Ok Frank if you choose to go that route it may be more costly in parts .....& I would suggest a circuit breaker in line there somewhere in your harness
harness is only $88-$120 Im also thinking the harness would be pre wired for a dashmount indicator gauge Also go to CMC site & go download a manual www.cook-mfg.net/downloads.html If I have time later in the winter Frank I will make you a video on using the meters for testing circuitry 
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55061
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These solenoids cost me less than 10 bucks each at NAPA Michael, and I can just follow what I did with the PT&T set-up. Circuit breaker is easy and inexpensive as well. I get an employee discount at NAPA that just can't be beat. My kill switch/lanyard is $7.54. I didn't even know NAPA had them till I was cruising around their website looking for electrical stuff.
I have all kinds of wire, switches, fuses, connectors and the like in my shop. I wired my hot rod, and have done a lot of vehicles tow harnesses, trailer wiring, etc. If I don't understand something, I'm not shy. I just ask. I already downloaded a manual, but it's for the current version of the jack. I emailed Cook Mfg. for a manual for my vintage PL-65, as well as to inquire as to a wiring harness for it, and have yet to get a reply. Business must be good eh? A video on using meters for testing circuitry would be great! Thanks. Frank |
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Power lift wiring idea 12 years 9 months ago #55075
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I think I got this wiring stuff figured out. The jack motor has 12 gauge wires (black, blue, green), and the up/down switch I have has purple, blue and green. I'm gonna find some color pencils or pens and re-do this with wire colors. Black grounds will probably go to a stud and from there to the two small posts (14 ga), two large posts (10 or 12 ga) and the negative post of the battery.
Any comments, suggestions, etc. greatly appreciated! Frank 
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55081
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Thats one hellofa diagram there Frank. Looks like it should work. Just one ?, Is there a limiter switch on the cylinder or are you just gonna stop it when it gets to the top or bottom?
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55086
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Yuk, yuk, yuk... That's funny Skip, got me laughing 1st thing in the a.m. Yes, there is a limiter switch, but I have no clue how to wire it. Two wires. Any idea?
I'm certainly no electrical whiz, but just figured I'd follow my PT&T wiring. The wires are all the same color, both from the power lift motor, and from the trim switch I plan on using. Can't be much different. I also do not have the two wires from my PT&T limit switch connected to anything. Someday... Thanks Skip! Frank P.S. - my new power lift control... 
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55094
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Frank, your limit switch will cut the power to the up solenoid when it reaches limit. The switch will be normally closed (on) and when it is activated by the mechanism it will open (off). Are you using 30 amp relays? Fuses are a must in the +12V line. If you like I can re draw your diagram for you in a schematic rather than physical wire routing.
In my opinion your diagram may be wrong. |
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Remember, my opinion in no way diminishes your opinion, nor yours mine. Collectively, there is a middle ground that is \\\"correct\\\" for the reader balancing all the input.
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55095
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Frank, glad you had a good laugh there this morning, Like Daveswaves stated the switch cuts the power to the unit when it reaches it's limit of travel. I am note sure as to which wire it connets into, I believe it is the blue and green wire, but don't hold me to that.It's been along time since I saw one of those units.You really should have it hooked up as it is really easy to burn those relays out. You should be able to get a proper wirering diagram from the maker to ckeck and make sure that every thing is good. Have fun with it, Skip.
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55102
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Hey Skip, I'm glad I had a good laugh this morning too, trust me.
I've emailed Cook Mfg. Co. a couple times this past week (customer service Thursday morning looking for a manual, and sales Friday morning, looking to buy a wiring harness), but have not got a reply. Maybe I will next week. I've got a while before this baby mounts on my Power Cat anyways, and I hear ya. Now my goal is to find out what the difference is between Sierra solenoids 18-5815, -5816, and -5836. The first two are half the price of the 3rd and I think that's the one I need. Bah. This stuff I have discovered is hard to find on the web. I have a Sierra catalog in the shop I'll check later. Just got home an hour ago or so from Dave Cummings' place with a bucket full of glass beaded aluminum power lift parts. Pics later! Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55103
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Aha! The 18-5815 solenoid is the same electrically as the 18-5836, but costs less than 1/2 as much.
Frank |
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Sandblasted parts 12 years 9 months ago #55106
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A beautiful sight in large part thanks to Dave Cummings...
How does all this stuff go back together? Hmmm... 
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55123
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Looking good there Frank, sure is nice when you can get something bead blasted.Now you can check it all over really good for any stress cracks. what type of finsh you gonna put on it? You could allways just shine it up nice and purdy. Have fun, Skip.
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55127
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I've already looked at everything closely Skip, no cracks visible with the naked eye (enhanced with 2.0 magnification reading glasses). My shoulders and hands don't enjoy polishing anymore, so cleaning it up a bit more is gonna be it I think. You don't want to put any finish on these babies other than WD-40 or silicone spray. Stuff needs to slide, and tolerances are such that it is my belief the reason I couldn't get the pump to work when I first got it was because the PO painted it! Buddy of mine in TX who boats in salt water says he uses WD-40, so that's probably what I'll do.
I intend to get new roll pins, but wonder if there's a need to get new 1/2" SS bolts that thread into the aluminum? I don't think so. I will be checking all the threads today with thread chasers (not taps and dies). If everything seems fine, that's what I'll go with. I do need new 1/4 X 3/4 buttonhead SS screws - the hex heads are not in great shape in any of them. And I wonder if I need new 3/4 SS nyloks? I have those 4 large 3/4 bolts that hold the basic unit together, and all with nyloks. I bet those babies are pricey! Hmmm, maybe I could just polish stuff easily seen... Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55129
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Ah, it's great to have friends and/or access to a bead blaster. She's looking much better now Frank! I agree with you on not painting, whatever polishing work you can do will look great and help it stay looking nice longer, IMO. (I've got a case of sample bottles of some great "spray on - wipe off" wax if you'd like to try it when the polishing is done.)
I know you get a great discount at the parts store, but if you need a source on bolts and hardware type stuff; www.mcmaster.com/# Pretty decent pricing, good service, based out of the Atlanta area but they will ship anywhere........Dpanky in MN used them for his Merc mounting hardware. Can't wait to see the finished product. Just a couple of (hopefully) helpful thoughts.  |
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Mark
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55134
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Thanks Mark, but I have a great buddy at a local fastener business here who continually hooks me up withh SS stuff, pretty much anything you could think of. We'll see about the polishing, my left shoulder is useless today, and I need to be careful with the right one. Too much polishing in my younger days...
Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55146
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I saw one of these acouple of yrs back that the owner had annodized the same color as his boat, really sharp looking. I would get new nylocs as the old one really weren't designed to use more than once. I know everyone uses them more than that but with the size of your motor and the power it puts out I would go with the new ones.I know the polishing gets really tiresome after awhile,been ther done that. The Wd40 works great.Its gonna look good when its done.Skip.
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55154
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Boy, those 4 SS 3/4" nylocks will run around 80-100 bucks for all 4! Ouch! I'm gonna get new ones anyways I guess. What the heck.
Anodizing is a bit out of my price league... Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55156
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WOW, what the heck they made of, Gold? Kinda pricey there. Letme check our bolt store here in town. Might pick them up abit cheaper.
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55158
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Skip, I got a buddy that works at a fastener place In Albany I'll call tomorrow. He'll give me a dealer price on them, I bet 1/2 or maybe less than what's on the web. They're BIG nyloks! I'll keep ya posted...
I'm calling him tomorrow anyways because I think they stock roll pins, and I have technical questions for him. Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55161
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Mcmaster Carr is much less expensive than that. Five 3/4-10 nylok nuts 18-8 stainless is only $9.23. If you want 316 stainless it's $2.96 a piece. 3/4-16 thread would be somewhat more expensive, but still a fraction of the price you quoted. The price will be more if you need heavy hex nuts also, but still cheaper. The heavy hex nuts are close to $15 a piece, so with shipping may be close to the same price you got. Doug
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55162
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Doug, thanks for the info. 316 is marine grade, but I don't boat in saltwater. I wonder what the difference is?
Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55181
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18-8 is stronger, 316 is more corrosion resistant. 18-8 is about the same as 304.
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Progress and a question... 12 years 9 months ago #55198
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Thanks Doug! I will find out more today.
Got my piston and motor/pump primed with zinc chromate this a.m. gives me more time to think about colors... 
Hey, is this an old Merc symbol on the bottom of my pump? 
Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55201
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Found out some stuff. My buddy at the local fastener place says he has the 18-8, and will hook me up.
Also, found out why there is a difference in price for solenoids that mount differently but have the same electrical configuration (i.e. 18-5836 and 18-5815). Sierra buys them from different suppliers, that's the only difference other than the mounting! So I can go with the much less expensive 5815's for my new electrical set-up for the jack plate. Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55204
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No it is not a mercury symbol.
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55212
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Okay, thanks Dave, just wonderin.
Finally somebody from Cook Mfg. got back to me. No manuals available for this (CMC quote) "at least 25 years old" unit. they have a wiring harness for 75 bucks, but I can build one cheaper. Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55220
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That looks like the old OMC logo Frank. CMC probably out-sourced the pump/motor and maybe even the cylinder from them back then?
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Mark
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55246
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I would imagine CMC outsourced lots of stuff Mark. It wouldn't make sense to develop a motor/pump and a piston just for themselves. Then again, maybe they did, who knows? I'll tell you one thing, I cannot for the life of me find another piston like this anywhere. I don't think I need one, but they're like hen's teeth I guess!
Thought I had some silver metallic in my paint collection, but nope. Bought some this a.m. before coming into work, and will get that motor/pump and piston painted tonight. I hope to pick up 10 new roll pins, 4 new 3/4-10 SS nyloks, and a few miscellaneous pieces of hardware I need for re-assembly Thursday morning and will start putting this baby back together. I'm not sure whether to mount it on my Power Cat temporarily (with 3M 4200) of just put it on for good with 3M 5200. Decisions, decisions! Did you ever do anything with that old PT&T I sent you? That is what it was right? I forget. Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55250
Yup, the PowerTran unit is still in my storage shed. I was going to use it on my StarFlite, but never did. The 8" setback was a deal breaker for me. I thought about cutting it down to reduce the amount, but the taper on the sides would make that kinda tough. Still have all the parts you sent with it,(no actuator) if you know of anyone looking for one......same price you gave me - $45 plus shipping.  Looking forward to seeing this CMC unit on your PC! |
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Mark
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55251
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Thanks Mark, it is a spring project, that is, as long as we get some winter in-between. Weather guys are saying deep freeze maybe the middle of February. I haven't even had to have the driveway plowed so far this winter! (I'm not complaining...)
Frank |
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Sparkly stuff 12 years 9 months ago #55270
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Getting there!
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55297
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Just found out the last year they made these units was 1987, which means this unit is at least 25 years old, and could be much older than that. Just interesting...
Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55322
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Seems about right. They began using components of their own design about then. Now everything is contained inside the plates, they have more precise movement, etc. etc.
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55323
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Actually Kerry, it might not be much older than '87, as I don't think CMC got into the power lift business until the mid-80's anyways.
I sort of thought these were off-the-shelf parts, but I can't find a piston replacement anywhere. It's not for lack of looking either! Off a bit later to get fasteners and electrical stuff to re-assemble and complete this unexpected project. Frank |
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55325
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Mark
Tried to PM you but no go. Will that T/T work on the older Mercs? You know,,my herd? Neil |
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Neil and Mary Ousnamer
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Re:Power lift and PT&T? And some wiring questions... 12 years 9 months ago #55326
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Neil - shoot me an email to xxxxx
Frank - You may have to match that cylinder up with an older OMC tilt ram, I have a hunch they used something that was currently in production at the time. I don't know of a source for them either other than a motor boneyard, may have to have yours refreshed at a hydraulics shop if it needs it? |
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Mark
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