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TOPIC: 1959 Herters rebuild
1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39412
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The past week I've been ripping on a '59 Herter's Flying Fish. I have it stripped and separated. A whole new 2" wood transom was installed yesterday with glass matt. The aluminum original was broken in two places and my personal opinion is that the setup was poorly designed. The hull is flipped and on the trailer so I can grind off the rusty bolts holding the keel on. When I repaint the hull can I reinstall the keel with stainless carriage bolts and 3m5200? Most of the bolts are either rusted or aged aluminum. Got to say one thing about this boat is is a quality build. All fittings and halves are rivited and through bolted, not like the screw into plywood that you usually see.
The transom had over 47 holes in it, wonder what held the Merc on at all. Sabre 
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39424
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Sabre,
Great progress, keep it up. Can't wait to see her done. Bob |
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39437
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I believe you made a good compromise on the transom. I agree that the originals were a joke. As if Herters had forgotten that they were making a spped boat - not one of their row boats.
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39450
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looking forward to seeing this rebuild...please take lots of pics and post them for us...thanks!
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39452
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Keep her up .. Its getting there ..If you can More pictures . Me LOVE pictures YES we do ...She will be something you can be proud of .. Larry
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39464
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sabre,yep more pics,lol,i have to fix the transom on mine too,lol,john
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\"too soon old,too late smart\" my pap
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.“ ---Mark Twain |
Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39468
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When I restored my woodie I took 1200 pictures for referance. This is a simple build compaired to that but I will post pictures, lots of pictures. I see one problem I'm going to have and that's getting the dagburn steering wheel pulled. I found that all the bolts I've encountered so far were easier to break off than unscrew them
 Lots of holes to back up and fill on the whole project. I have a remote spotlight that was on the deck that I'm not going to put back on. |
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39473
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Glad to see you're jumping in with both feet Sabre, looks like you "got it goin' on" there!
Some of those bring a handsome price if they're in decent shape, might help with the restoration supplies expenses.  |
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Mark
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39475
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The light is functional, the lens is cracked and it needs a rechrome.
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39476
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OK, How can I post multiple pictures? I'll try dumping my whole file on the post and see what happens...
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39482
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Sabre,
It is kind of cumbersome to post multiple pics. You need to post one and submit and then continue to edit the post over and over again adding it new IMG files after the last including any explanation text ....one image at a time over and over. Good luck. Tim |
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Tim
\"Barnfinder\" If the ladies don't find ya handsome, they'd better at least find ya handy...... Red Green |
Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39483
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Post with the first picture, then hit the "edit" button to add another. Repeat as many times as you'd like.
If you're posting links to photobucket, picaza, or whatever, you can add as many as you'd like at once, using the button in the toolbar above the post box. |
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Mark
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39487
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Try with the pictures. hold on.
As you can see I'm pressed for space so I have the topside leaning against my basement wall. That's my Sabre along side. 
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39504
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One of the reasons your transom may have broken is because the 1959 and later models did not have a transom brace installed like the previous models.
I have two 59's and both had cracked transoms. They can be repaired by using a milling machine to remove portions of the webbing and installing an internal stiffner making sure to place it where any motor securing bolts would go through it. Then a transom brace can be fabricated and installed or you may be lucky enough to find an original Herters brace as they were used on many Herters boats besides the Flying Fish and Mark III models as well as sold as a stand alone part. Your 1959 should still have the tab on the transom to bolt the brace to. Another contributing factor is what size transom the boat was ordered with. Three sizes were available, 15, 16.5, and 20 inch. The 15 inch transom has the least strength. If you do go with a wood transom make sure you make provisions to mount the steering eyelets and tailcaps to something substantial as the aluminium transom does. The tail caps and fins get their support from the transom. 
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39541
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Thanks for the advice but I have no intention of reinstalling the aluminum transom plate. I'm not "restoring" the boat, I'm rebuilding it with some custom touches. I have more pictures from today. Worked on the transom.
Sanded the outside with a 40 grit belt sander to rough it up and expose all the hidden cracks. 
Filled and rough sanded with 240 grit. Ready for prime. 
New transom from inside. Not pretty painted yet. Matt on the outside shell, 3/4" marine, matt sandwhich, 3/4" marine, matt on outside and fiber filling small voids on all edges and then cloth for the finish topping. 
Removed keel. All bolts were rusted to nothing. 
All tools needed to do the job properly. 
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39544
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After seeing you picture your transom is longer than mine. I have a Merc Mark 58AE short shaft that is going on it so I need the strength. Here is an article that came from our local paper yesterday, thought it would be interesting to all members that are doing transom work. Do it properly and don't skimp. I keep in mind that my grandkids will be in this boat.
Can't get the scanned article to past to the forum so I typed it. "Milwaukee 9 rescued from boat in Lake Michigan The U.S. Coast Guard rescued six children and three adults from a sinking boat in Lake Michigan near Milwaukee. Petty officer Sam Burnside said he helped respond to the call about 10:30am Saturday. He said the transom, where the motor is mounted on the back of the 18 foot runabout had broken off and taken the motor with it. He said the boat was taking on water. He said someone on the boat called a family member who convinced someone at a Milwaukee yacht club to help rescue them from the Lake. That person sent their GPS coordinates to the Coast Guard so they could find them. Burnside said everyone was wearing a life jacket and no one was injured." |
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39561
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The steering cable setup by the po was straight forward. All others I've seen were like you have pictured with the spring tension and pully. The one I have was a straight setup from the steering wheel to the motor. I'm thinking of a straight single. What gets me is a few years ago I sold two used setups and now I need one
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39604
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Unfortunately isn't that how it goes? and my wife wonders why I'm a pack rat sometimes.
Bob |
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39645
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I'm looking at a doner boat that has both a windshield and steering that can be used.
Did some sanding today on the hull. I think the po used an epoxy with a brush. While sanding I'm going through several layers of paint but they do a perfect job of finishing the spider cracks. All I have to do is fill up some dock and trailer scrapes. The transom is finished and ready for finish coat. Finished Transom 
Good start on the sanding until rain put the keebosh on it. 
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39769
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Finished the prep sanding and did spot fills on the dock scrapes. Purchased high build primer/activator and some Imron white. The paint tech went for the whitest/brightest possible. Going to be an interesting weekend.
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39774
Sweet, I'm looking forward to watching the progress. I work on my project for a while, then come inside to cool off and check the FG forums, take a break, etc...  Bright Imron White should be great, anxious to see how it turns out. Glad to hear they now make a version you can roll & tip, used to be spray only!? |
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Mark
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39833
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Started the underside of the topside..does that make sense?
Removed all the garbage from behind the dash, finally got the steeering wheel off, had to take it apart from behind.Took out two bees nests, ground off all rusted nuts and screws so they could be removed, put glass backing on the holes so they can be filled from the top with matt and mud. Started replacing backing boards. Tomorrow's another day. 
Don't know what this cutout was for, radio? glove box, anyway it's getting filled in. 
Start of the new backing boards glassed in. 
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39966
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More progress on the underside of the topside.
Finished replacing the wood bracing, and installed the 1 1/2" pvc for the wire run. Put on a heavy coat of high build primer on the hull. Learned a few lessons on that. I hadn't used my spray gun in a few years .... like 10 or so, got it all cleaned up, ran laquer thinner through it ready to shoot. Mixed the high build according to directions with the activator and thinner. The darn gun would not for the life of me suck up the high build!!! Now there is a pot life of about three hours on the stuff once mixed, gun full, and not working, dang! Ugly time. I brushed the high build on the entire hull and it really did a good job. Heavy heavy build up so I'll have lots of sanding to do but the good side of the story is that I will not have to do any minor filling cuz the primer is so thick there is not a pinhole in site 
Wood bracing glassed in for the stern light 
Heavy wood bracing under the foredeck 
1 1/2" PVC glassed in on the starboard side for wire run 
Heavy high build in my non osha aproved spray booth 
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39969
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I'm going to have to try it. I got about six guns.
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39971
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I have $$$$ worth of Imron and activator sitting on my work bench and the gun is now worth $.02. Ill hit Harbor Freight tomorrow and look for a gravity feed gun. Any recommendations? The cash is starting to thin out more than the paint since I'm still looking at a doner boat for a better trailer, steering, windshield and brightwork.
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39973
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Sabre
Looking Great so far. By the way wouldn't that be a non OSHA approved Brush Booth?  Bob |
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39975
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I got a very large box of air tools from a lady going through a divorce for $25 once. It had two Devilbiss guns and a Binks No. 7 Chinese knockoff that I just love to shoot primer with. I have a nice Sharpe gun and a few other knock-off guns that work well. In that box was a Rodak 3/8 air wrench and several good made DA style sanders and a very expensive Jitterbug. It had a few air hammers and lots of chisels including a panel cutter. All worked.
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #39979
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Wow, that is a deal! Poor guy had his living ripped out from under him.
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40064
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Did some more finishing on the hull today, sanded the high build primer to a baby bottom finish, just needs the wet sanding now before I do the color coat. Installed the 1 1/2" pvc on the port side for another wire run, put back up glass on the final three monster holes on the deck and glassed in a new backing board behind the dash. Put glass matt on the back of the panel, clamped the new backer to the wet matt, hope it holds. No pictures today, too tired from sanding.
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40066
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How 'bout a brush/spray weather sensitive area. Had to move operations indoors today because of possible storms.
I keep at it every day cuz if I quit we all know that it's hard getting going again. I set a goal of having the boat finished by Sept 20, Probably not the motor though. If I don't set the goal I have a hard time when the Mrs asks when the piece of junk is out of the garage |
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40098
We'll cut you some slack this time, but we expect more pics soon!  I think you're making great progress, but then my project is moving at a roaring "snail's pace" as I think Gil called it. Glad to be getting some rain, but the fumes from the resin cause much discord in the happy home. |
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Mark
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40101
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cal, if your pvc is level, you might want a drain hole or two. it will probly get some condensation/water in it, even if the wires are insulated, wouldnt be good for them to lay in dampness. just a thought.
our old house was re-wired (supposedly) the service line from the meter to the breaker box had a dip in it. the "expert" that wired it didnt seal the weather head.. water laid in the line and eventualy rotted the insulation on the wire...ran a power surge through the ground of the house. appliances exploded & sparks flew. almost lost everything. incase any of you don't know....I didnt... a surge protector only protects against a power surge on the posative line...not the ground... |
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40104
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Now that's something I would never have thought of, great idea.
When you mention it I could think about the hard freezing winters with the boat sitting outside covered, water freezing in the lines stressing the wires. I've repaired some boats where the transom and floors were completely hosed because of water freezing. Thanks DT. How's the Larson coming along? 
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40143
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OK more pictures.
Had a small crack in the corner of the front seat, reenforced it with maple, glass mat and cloth. 
Here are the drilled holes in the pvc wire runs. Anyone curious about the 2x4's they are strictly for support while the deck is off the hull, they'll come off later. 
Here is the old transom aluminum brace. Notice the crack, there wer two of them. Now I will be using these peices for patterns...maybe. 
Underside of topside basework is finished, 
Underside painted, ready to flip for the top hole filling and repairs. 
Inside look of the fin, without these it would be just a boat. Notice all the holes that need filling in the motor well. Gives you an idea what the rest of the topside is like. 
Glad that's done, sure makes it nicer with a clean bottom when you're laying on your keester looking up hanging wires and cables, no dry junk falling in the eyes. 
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40150
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Git-R-Done, Dude! Man your progress and attention to detail are inspiring. Don't you just love those people that mount those plates using fifty screws/bolts!? Most of 'em squirt a little silicone in the holes if anything, and can't figure out why the transom started rotting faster than it was before. From the looks of your old aluminum plate, there was some serious flexing going on back there, huh?
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Mark
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40164
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Flexing, well I guess! The transom was about 2 inches out past the rest of the stern. There are acutally two of those cracks on each side pretty much where the motor mounts were. There was a 1959 Mark 58AE hanging on the back, I strapped it down pretty tight the day I brought the boat home. Had visions of the motor dragging down the highway hanging on by the cables and sparks flying.
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40172
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Cal,
Holy crap you weren't kidding, swiss cheese there! Looking great so far keep up the good work. Bob |
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40179
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Think I did enough for a day.
Started filling holes in the deck. 
Fresh start for a clean dash. 
Some perspective on the lack of work area. Tomorrow I'm getting some 2x4's and castors and mount the top deck for easier moving like I did with the hull. The tipping and tugging is taking a toll on my old bones. 
Soon the bullwork will be done and the fun part of putting it together begins. Haven't thought about a deck color yet but the bottom hull will be snow white. Maybe I should have a suggestion box open up on this thread. Dark emerald gree, Candy red, Deep blue, Pink was nice but there already is a fish out there with that color. Black - naah. 
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40214
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the larson has been in slow mode. running to dr.'s. got all the snaps & rivets out of the hull. cut the jagged edges off the floor. the boy is "supposed" clean it all out so we can start putting it back togethar. i must say, you are flying through this build and still doing it right. that is going to be a nice boat when it's done, i like the shape and design of it. looks pretty stream line. makes my larson look like a floating winabego..
edit... your transom looked like mine...from what i've read the transom is one of the most abused parts of a boat and yet, everyone likes to weeken them by drilling a bunch of holes in it. Mark S. that's what was done with my larson. drilled a hole & put some silicone in it. it's a boat not a window..lol |
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Re:1959 Herters rebuild 13 years 3 months ago #40300
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Did some more hole filling and rough sanding today. Took a tally and counted 258 different holes in the topside all different sizes and shapes. Finally got some wheels under the topside to ease the work.
Paraphrase Scotty: {Admiral, we got wheels} 
Motor well holes filled and rough sanded, ready for high build prime and more finishing. 
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