Need help on a part of my 650XS

Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 3 months ago #114601

boatmaniac
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Hello,

My mechanic still isn`t sure about the function of the part in the picture of my Merc 650XS. The part with the 2 leads and the blue printed plate on it. It is connected to + and neg. and with contact "on" i hear it clicking. Is it a fuel pump? A kind of choke? A vacuem? The Mercury dealer told me it is impossible to start a Mercury without a choke but I can`t find a choke on the Merc 650XS.

Thanks, Taco.

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Re: Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 3 months ago #114604

NJTriton Offline Contributing Member Posts: 289 Karma: 12 Thank you received: 0	What's the serial number? Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 3 months ago #114609

daveswaves Offline Expert Boarder Posts: 396 Karma: 36 Thank you received: 0	The part in question is a fuel shut off/on solenoid. Not stock as far as I know If someone has removed the choke system they (might_) have put in a fuel feed line to the carbs or crank case balance tube using this device. When the solenoid is energized fuel will flow through it. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 3 months ago #114621

boatmaniac
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Hi Brian,

The serial number is 4304515. Not much technical info about the 650XS on the internet.

Hi Dave,

I think you are right about the function as it is indeed a part with very small hoses that are connected to the crank case and the lower hose goes to the incoming fual line. This means it has to be activated only when starting the motor { cold } ? It is now conected to the ignition switch so it will not switch off after the motor has started. Probably better to make a push button like the choke button in the MerControl?

Thanks for the help.

Taco.

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 3 months ago #114633

daveswaves Offline Expert Boarder Posts: 396 Karma: 36 Thank you received: 0	Yes, it should be hooked to either the starter voltage or separately hooked to a choke button. If you have it hooked to the ignition the engine will flood. The fuel source must be under pressure, either the output of the fuel pump or manual squeeze bulb which would be awkward at best. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 3 months ago #114842

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I would not assume that it is not a factory part.

The T2 and T2x had a similar set up from factory that looked like that.

It a fuel enrichment solenoid. Not sure exactly the specifics, but I will assume its correct for your motor too.

You can see above the coil on this t2x a similar solenoid for fuel.

c

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 3 months ago #114868

Dr_Frankenmerc Offline Contributing Member Posts: 1433 Karma: 185 Thank you received: 44	Pretty sweet looking Conrad doc Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 3 months ago #114886

milkdud Offline Gold Boarder Posts: 563 Karma: 42 Thank you received: 3	I wish it were mine Doc. Its a friend of mine's motor. Somday Ill get mine together. Hope all is well. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 3 months ago #114887

milkdud Offline Gold Boarder Posts: 563 Karma: 42 Thank you received: 3	here is a 650 xs powerhead that was for sale on another forum. Notice it has the same fuel enricher. C Attachments: Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS Update! 10 years 2 months ago #115391

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I took the boat/motor out today for a test. The carburaters are cleaned and new gaskets etc. The fuel enricher has an on/off switch.Since the motor has none internal fuel pump i added the squize ball to get pressure on the carbs. The starting procedure i tried is pumping the ball untill it`s hard.No fuel leaking from the carbs.Contact switch "on" and fuel enricher "on". Trottle lever totally down or shut. Starting the motor and it fires up straight away { 90 Ah battery } . Motor runs at about 800-1000 rpm. Shut off the fuel enricher and motor runs excellent for about 30 to 40 seconds. Then the idle rpm goes up and motor stops running. Sounds like it does not get fuel without a fuel pump.

I asume i need to use an electric fuel pump that i need to switch "on" after the motor runs and the enricher is shut "off". Do not need the pump ball when using a fuel pump.

What you experts think?

The sound of the motor is superb by the way with its exhoust above the waterline.

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS Update! 10 years 2 months ago #115403

Dr_Frankenmerc
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Taco,
I just reviewed the pictures of your 650xs, and that little electric solenoid is clearly just an enrichner.
If it has an "on" - "off" switch, not just a switch that you have to hold "on' momentarily, it is currently acting like a fuel pump for low RPMs, but would starve the engine for wide open throttle use.
Since the previous owner has put a blank plate over the engine's fuel pump casting, I suspect they were running a fuel pump somewhere in the fuel hose coming from the gas tank - probably mounted in the boat.
doc

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115411

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Hi Doc,

I can see the blank plate indeed. I think i "get the picture" now. I will add an electric fuel pump in the hose after the gasoline filter. Cold start procedure will be : Fuel pump switch "on" untill it stops { pressure} same as pump ball. Fuel pump "off". Contact switch "on" and enrichner switch "on". Starting the motor and when it idles enricher switch "off" and fuel pump switch "on".

I guess it will work out this way.

Thanks for the assists to forum members who respond to my topic!

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115482

daveswaves Offline Expert Boarder Posts: 396 Karma: 36 Thank you received: 0	For your starting, and running leave the fuel pump on. If it was mine I would replace the ON OFF switch for the fuel solenoid with a push button switch (push for on) and call it a choke. Fuel pump should come on with the ignition and go off with the ignition. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115506

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Hi Dave,

I had the same thought like you have but there is one problem. If the fuel pump goes on by the igninion it will pump fuel also when i use the enrichner. In this case the gasoline will be "blown out" at the front of the 3 carbs. I may change the enricher switch for a push button so i can`t forget to pull it "off" as soon as the motor fires up.

Last Sunday i changed the impeller. That was an easy job allthough it was my first time. I removed the old oil of the gear case and have to add fresh oil. The dealer recommends high performance oil that they use for all modern outboards either 2 or 4 stroke. Can I use this oil for the motor that goes up to 7000Rpm?

Taco.

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115515

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Hold on a sec here. My take is a enrichner comes into play AFTER the carb/float circuit. Like straight gas to the motor for start, right? Then having a fuel pump (inline to carbs) like one I have, not used yet, but Doc has same on a TX build him. Just not sure if he has tried it yet. But the pump is only 4-7 PSI and should NOT overcome the float needles. I'd simple try one inline first and see it floods out. And we are not talking Fuel Injection pumps here, just little PSI pump that would do same as diaphragm pumps on the motor. Let me find what I got, and correct me if wrong or confused!

OK, found it Some text and a link...

Facet universal electronic pump for all carburetor equipped cars, vans, light trucks, boats, generators, and farm equipment fuel systems.

www.pacificcustoms.com/ac127004b.html

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115522

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Heres a little more on pulse pumps. PSI 5-7 them.

"So how do I know the fuel pump is doing what it is suppose to?
As described above, the fuel pump requires an adequate pulse from the cylinder that it is attached to, so first thing is to make sure compression on that cylinder is up to snuff or the fuel pump can't do it's job. If compression checks out, then next thing is to check fuel pump pressure. All non fuel injected outboard motors operate with a fuel pump pressure of about 5 to 7 psi. If consideribly less than 5 to 7 psi exists between fuel pump and carb/s, the motor is likely to be starving for fuel causing idle and/or upper rpm operation to suffer, not to mention a dangerously lean condition"

And let me add some more here. An electric pump DOES NOT have major "uphill" capabilities (gas gets heavy going "uphill"), as will lose PSI. So mount it ON THE motor, NOT IN THE BOAT! And the higher up the motor the better.

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115526

daveswaves Offline Expert Boarder Posts: 396 Karma: 36 Thank you received: 0	Exactly Robby, I mounted mine on the engine. Good needles and seats will hold the 5 to 7 psi. The enrichener or choke has to be a momentary switch, push to choke. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115538

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daveswaves wrote:

Exactly Robby, I mounted mine on the engine. Good needles and seats will hold the 5 to 7 psi. The enrichener or choke has to be a momentary switch, push to choke.

Thanks the "back up me"! AND DAMN RIGHT on the "Off/Mom/Off switch, be push button or toggle, dont matter. After start off and let it idle (fast idle the box for a bit then back down to idle and warm up).

OK, also those pumps (12V) come with a gas filter too.

ANYWAY? DAMN ..that's a SWEET "eye candy" boat/ motor combo! Try what we are telling you, but ask first here, with a pic anything tried BEFORE a fire! Also get someone to VID IT! Beautiful boat and a singing MERC ass end..? PRICELESS! Wish the best to ya!

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115540

73Crestliner Offline Senior Boarder Posts: 228 Karma: 9 Thank you received: 0	This post has been a learning experience. I really appreciate how the old timers and pros share their knowledge with such a nice bedside manner. Really glad to have this forum! Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115572

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Heck we all learn something here daily!

But I been thinking this more today. As I mentioned on "lift", I think I should really call it "push". As it also has to "pull",to prime.Heres where the fun begins! From the link I posted..

"Easy to Install: Two bolt installation plus the small size makes installation easy. For best results, mount the pump close to the fluid or fuel tank and below the liquid level.

And

Self Priming: The pump is self priming to 12 inches of fuel lift. No extended cranking is necessary to restart engine after running out of fuel"

So my take would be like Dave said, mount it on the motor, but I would suggest to always use the squeeze bulb to make sure its getting fuel before start. Could get some draw down if been sitting awhile. Catch my drift, or am I on S Creek without a paddle?

Plus I have a similar set up with a small auto pump that takes 10 minutes to fill a 5 gallon tank. Use it to pump old gas out boats. Worked fine my sold now 25 foot barge drawing gas up 3 feet over the side and down and out to the can. And it self primed drawing up that 3 feet a dry hose at first. But easy to check this type pump first with a can, 2/3 feet hose then pump and see if it primes, then pumps by itself. That will tell you the "pulling power"

Interesting thread!

(Edit. That pump I linked too does 32 Gallons an hour, so the about 1/2 gallon a minute, so thats 5 gals in 10 minutes, same as the pump time mine)

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115575

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So my take would be like Dave said, mount it on the motor, but I would suggest to always use the squeeze bulb to make sure its getting fuel before start. Could get some draw down if been sitting awhile. Catch my drift, or am I on S Creek without a paddle?

Hey Robby, nope you have both paddles with you leave the squeeze bulb in to prime the electric pump and fill the carb bowls. The electric pumps will draw (lift) a fair amount of height as long as there is fuel in the pump. They don,t pump air worth a damn.

Next time you see Thom (doc) say hi for me.

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115577

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Yep, as I'm due for a "Doc appointment!"

Also should go without saying "messing with gas"? Gas don't burn but the fumes sure do! And sink. I've got a switch the pump (pumping old gas) and a long run to the batt which is away from anything and raised up a ladder or something. All it takes is one spark off the batt connect/dis connect so PAY ATTENTION! And let any fumes dissipate before any batt touching. OK, nuff out me as I gotta do some boat work MYSELF!

Damn, you guys are a LOT of fun to bench race (or should I say "puter race?" with! I had a great summer, hope you "kids" did too!

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115585

daveswaves Offline Expert Boarder Posts: 396 Karma: 36 Thank you received: 0	Kid? LOL, i have 14 grandkids ! I enjoy garage sharing over the net too. If Im not puttering with engines I get antsy, grease under my nails is my idea of a french manicure. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115601

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daveswaves wrote:

Kid? LOL, i have 14 grandkids ! I enjoy garage sharing over the net too. If Im not puttering with engines I get antsy, grease under my nails is my idea of a french manicure.

HA! But ya still "kids to me!" Just a touch older! On a "man's cologne"? Still can't beat 2 stroke exhaust! And they ask what blood type you? "20-50 or TCW!

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115679

Dr_Frankenmerc
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I have attached (2) pictures showing where I mounted my FACET electric fuel pump.
It works great.
The enrichner needs to be a push button for 'momentary ON' operation, totally a separate function and delivery points than the fuel pump - which should be on when the ignition is turned on, and stops when the ignition is either interrupted or intentionally turned off.

Just returning home from another week in the local ICU.
Golden Years,...Phooey

doc

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115689

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Hello Doc,

If my pump does not work like expected i will order a fuel pump you have used for your motor and mount it the same way. The "Hardy" pump i have is to big to attach to the motor so it is in the fuel line/hose now. The Hardy pump is 4 to 5 psi and special constructed for older carberaters. It stops automatically when there is no fuel consumption.

I will give it a try and can change things if it doesn`t work out.

Thanks, Taco.

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115700

Robby321
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Dr_Frankenmerc wrote:

I have attached (2) pictures showing where I mounted my FACET electric fuel pump.
It works great.
The enrichner needs to be a push button for 'momentary ON' operation, totally a separate function and delivery points than the fuel pump - which should be on when the ignition is turned on, and stops when the ignition is either interrupted or intentionally turned off.

Just returning home from another week in the local ICU.
Golden Years,...Phooey

doc

Hey Doc..(you gotta stay outta them places..sorry to hear about it) Anyway, thats what made me buy one when I saw what you did. In fact, I online ordered one and they sent me TWO! And only charged for one! Keep the faith, keep the health will ya!

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115714

boatmaniac Topic Author Offline Senior Boarder Posts: 166 Karma: 5 Thank you received: 1	Thanks to forum support i finally have the motor running like it should. Not tested on the water yet so i will inform later how it performs on the Aristo Craft Torpedo. Thanks for your help! Taco. Attachments: Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115715

daveswaves Offline Expert Boarder Posts: 396 Karma: 36 Thank you received: 0	Thats Great Taco, its a beautiful boat and motor, looking forward to a shot of it running, a video would be great. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #115791

Seymour Offline Senior Boarder Posts: 158 Karma: 8 Thank you received: 0	I've been watchig this tread for a hole waitin for te all fixed. That is a very cool little motor!! I have learned some cool new things from this thread too. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 2 months ago #116230

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Today was the final day of the season and before boats are getting out of the water for winter storage i decided to make a test run with the Aristo craft / 650XS. I bought an action cam mounted it on the motor to make a small movie for this forum to show how the motor performs with your help. Long story short.... I did not get the action cam on

Anyway, the motor fired up at first try and i ran it for about 10 minutes mostly at full speed. It probably has a wrong propeller as the motor did not sound like it runs 7000 rpm. It has a 3 blade solas 11 1/8 X 13. At least the motor runs strong and the sound is a blast! It made only 40 to 42Mph, not too exciting.

I am pleased that it ran so well and have a good "starting point" for the next season. If there are any suggestions on what propeller to use or info to get higher speed out of it would be appriciated.

Taco.

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 1 month ago #116236

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My take? Many variables come into play. First is get a Tach as that says way more. Plus boat weight (wood right?) length, hull design, motor height (back end pic would show all) prop Alum, our SS, cupped, or not. Plus on running at wanting 7000 R's? Maybe back in the 70's on a 13 foot light race Allison with then great Prem gas. Its a rare beast, kick the timing (don't do spec then) back a degree, and forget the "raceboat" speed. If ya running 40's now with a 650? Doing great! Just cause a XS does not mean 20 more HP, more like 5 tops. XS 1500 6c Mercs were only 5 hp over a straight 150.
Need a vid running WOT next year and we can tell more if lugging (not good) or whatever. Myself? I'd be damn happy just the way it is, but let some the wizards chime in this.

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 1 month ago #116241

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Hi Robby,

The 650 should have 90 Hp so i expected higher speed than the Mark 78 that was on.The Torpedo 14 is 14`6" long, 61 beam and 245 lbs weight.Probably another 200 lbs for motor, tank, battery etc and 170 lbs for Taco! The transom is 16"{12} degree? Bottom type Semi V-Full lenght non-trip chines. I will make some pics of propeller and back of boat. Does look like a standard propeller stainless steel.

It`s a pitty that boating seison has ended but gives time to set up things for next summer.

Taco.

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 1 month ago #116244

daveswaves Offline Expert Boarder Posts: 396 Karma: 36 Thank you received: 0	Taco the 650 xs Can make 90 hp but needs to to make 7000 rpm to do it, without a tach its hard to say if you can get more. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 1 month ago #116255

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Damn! Learn something everyday! Don't know much on 650XS, but sure learning more! I'll have to bone up on a bit searching!

Boy was I off. Had my 1500XS on my brain. Yep it would make 90, and that makes the 40 mph more than a tad low. Also on the 650X? Damn!

"There was never any information released on horsepower. Max RPM range in the early 1974 catalog says 7,000 to 7,200 rpm. Based on similar OMC race motors and the slightly less powerful Mercury 650XS rated at 90 hp it would be reasonable to estimate the 650X was approximately 105 hp."

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Re:Need help on a part of my 650XS 10 years 1 month ago #116260

aznative14 Offline Contributing Member Posts: 256 Karma: 8 Thank you received: 0	A good formula to compute top speed, if motor has the HP to overcome load, is: [(RPM / Ratio) X (pitch / 1056)] Then assume 10% slip, so multiply result by .9 This should give a fair estimate. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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