TOPIC: Painting

Hey guys I know that there are several threads on here about painting and preparing the surface for paint/gel coat but none of them are exact and each case differs greatly so I decided I would strike up a new thread.
I would like to know how I can fill the 'crazing' in my current gel coat?
What do I need to do to prep for re-gel coat/paint?
Which is better paint or gel coat?
Is there a type of 'bondo' to fill the cracks so that I can sand to repaint?
Hope that the pictures are good enough to show you that the cracks are mostly small hairlines but they are all over the top side. Any help would be GREAT!
Chance Harder

they have to be sanded out or they will only re-appear.

There is so many though it seems like to me I should take off all the gel coat. Some of the cracks are so small that a piece of sandpaper wouldnt even fit into them. Thats how big most of them are some of the them though yes a piece of sandpaper could probably be wedged into them to clean them out.

removing all the old gelcoat is the best way to proceed...but a lot of work.

it depends on how you want your boat done,if its not going to be a show boat,i have a trick that worked on our very badly cracked visor on our sunray,i sanded it smooth then used the west marine epoxy,and rolled it on with a smooth foam roller,doing it very quickly,then sanded it smooth again before painting it.

the only other way is to use a dremel type rotary tool and grind out the cracks into a v ,then fill with gel resin and sand smooth.

there are other ways but i will leave that to better painters than me,john

Alright guys well it's not necessarily going to be a show boat but I have alot of time and a good friend of mine told me I can use one of his body shops paint booths. I think I will go ahead and sand it all off. But for putting it back on which is better gel coat or paint? and I like your roller idea John but I have a paint gun so as to make sure the gun doesnt go to waste hahaha thanks for the great ideas too guys!
Chance

chance i was talking about rolling on epoxy ,then sand dull,then you can spray on the paint,the epoxy is to cover the cracks,if you click on this pic it will enlarge it,this is how bad the visor was cracked. this is how it turned out,john

Yes removing gel coat is a lot of work. I removed most of mine by sanding it off , only to have some kind of contamination actually in the front deck. You can look at an earlier post marked contamination below a page or two. I have a ton of work into that old buggy.

Oh okay I see what you were talking about John wow that turned out amazing! I really like that blue.
Wow I saw your contamination Robert that stinks. The rest of it looked amazing though I must say. What brand of paint were you using?
Thanks for the input guys

Bottom is Rustoleum and the top is Ditzler PPG enamel.

I'm going to try having the deck on the Glastron bead blasted to remove gelcoat. Then I'm going to use a high end paint when I am done. Gelocat is tough when it isn't in a mold.

In my humble opinion and a little bit of experience thrown in, I would try to get most of the gel coat removed to start fresh. I think that while you are going to such great lengths to get a nice result, do it right the first time. Patience is a touch one for me, but I find that the finished product is all in the prep. When I am sick of sanding, I just take a break and then come back and go at it again. You will never be sorry for putting in that extra effort!

I'll second that. Black really show everything, including dust.

yep,i agree with you all, taking it all off is the right way to go,i was just giving an alternitive,for those who just want to get out on the water quick,and still have a decent looking boat.

If mine had not been so deep and had a least three previous attempts at fixing them before I got it I would have tried what you did John. Mine was borderline fix or set on fire. If the transom had not been rock solid I would not have fixed it. As you can see, mine was all the way to the glass.

I haven't started my project yet. AND I will have to remove the gel coat.
What is the verdict on grinding gel coat off as opposed to sanding it off ?
I can assume the rotary grind off is lots quicker, but more danger of a quick slip and seeing the inside of the boat from the hull side ?
If sanding it off:
Do you use rotary disc ?
random orbital ?
quarter sheet oscilating sander ?
How quick does the paper or disc load up with gel coat ?
Or is it just a giant dust cloud ?

My guess is start with 36 grit for quick removal, then switch to 80 to get to the fiberglass ?
How fine of grit to go to for fairing compound ?
Or do you need a bite from coarser grit for holding power ?

As you can tell, I've never done fiberglass work, and I'm a sponge right now, gaining knowledge from all of your hints and tips.

Yes I am with Chuck what IS the best way to go about removing the old gel coat and Robert............................................uhmmmmmmmmm WOWWW that looks gorgeous, absolutely amazing! Looking at that just makes me want to put all the more effort into getting that nice 'glass' look like that I love it thanks for the pics guys!

try to use a high power pressure washer with around 2500-3000psi and put a turbo tip on it or a real small degree fan tip and just blast that stuff off. Yours looks like it would come off 80% with just power washing it. Or do like John says and roll on some West System Epoxy Resin thickened with some fumed silica to help penetrate and have a thickness and sand it smooth to have something to start with.

That mess on my gelcoat was power washed and all it did was piss it off. If you ran your hand over it it could cut and what ever you did you did not leave it a chance to get under your fingernails. I though about it for a year before I started. If you use a fast method I can almost certainly say you will go through the glass. If you do do not go the whole way through. I used a Jitterbug type air sander with 40 grit and the good old hands rubbing. I'll say a lot of hand rubbing. Haste will end in waste. Take it easy and see how thick your gel is. Mine was real thick.

Where did you guys buy your gel coat and what primer did you use and how much did you use?

Unless you are very good with a buffer and sanding with blocks - I would not suggest to any person just learning to try and gelcoat anything outside of a mold. There is just SO much labor intensive work to do and hours upon hours upon hours of sanding with different grits followed by buffing rock hard gelcoat. If you dont sand it good and sand it in order and make sure the previous sand scratches are sanded out with the finer grit ... after buffed you will see all the scratches and have to start sanding all over again. Get with a local pro and ask questions.

As far as primer I like using Evercoat Feather Fill G2 Polyester Primer sprayed through a cheap $40.00 TCPGLOBAL 2.5 tip primer or flake gun. For as cheap as these guns are they spray thick poly primers very well.

When I start to strip a boat of old gelcoat I usually use a combination of 8" Gear Driven Orbital Mudhog sander with 36grit, 6" D.A. sander with 36grit and then follow it up with 80 grit on a D.A. and then a whole lot of hand sanding with 80grit on blocks and by hand through a foam pad. I fix all the problem areas and then polyprimer right over the 80 grit prep with 3 -5 coats of poly after the surface has been cleaned and cleaned and cleaned.

I don't like suggesting a grinder because it is too easy to get carried away and let the grinder butcher the whole boat and cause more work for you in break through and a wavy boat that you have to fair out from front to back. Good Luck!

Someone used a disc sander on the winner before it was mine. This is the same boat. I thought long and hard before starting this boat. Something kept telling me to burn it and get another but I'm not like that. Although the damage was visible it really started coming out when I started sanding. The hull was like this. All the gel was still on the top. This is an edge shot of how deep the cracking was and the thickness of the top gel. What ever contaminated the glass mat came down through those cracks. This stained glass. The last paint somebody slopped on there was this color. So I can tell you to take your time and not get to hasty until you get onto your thickness and how hard the gel is. I'm was tired sweaty, exhausted and worn out from this one only to have contamination problems. I consider myself lucky it was only the front deck.

Wow... Thanks guys. Looks I should save the grinder for the metal trailer !!! Those pics cured me of the grinder !!!!
Getting back to 36 grit. Do you guys stop just short of the mat layer of fiberglass, then go to 80 grit the rest of the way to the mat.(going on the assumption that gel is cracked and checked all the way to the fiberglass)
Or do you take the 36 grit all the way to the mat layer then switch to 80 to get the 36 grit scrathes out ?

I used 36 to the mat but I've done bodywork all my life so you may want to switch just shy of it until you get a feel for it.

Time for the next question...
Once the gel coat is removed down to the fiberglass, do you go straight to fairing compound, or do you seal up the fiberglass with a layer or two, or ten of resin to build up back to the thickness of where it was from the gel coat? then apply the fairing compound, and sand all over again till smooth and straight ?

On one of the threads someone mentioned a fiberglass restore book ?
What was the name of that book ?

Wow, you guys do good work with paint. I don't think I will be able to get that involved on my first project.

I think I would like to hear some more details of John's method. I want to get out on the water in the spring and don't have a lot of time or money to put into it this winter. I can always sand it all off later.

John, what grit sand paper did you use and what applicator? What epoxy and what paint? I understand that you sanded it smooth, but did not sand out all the cracks before rolling on the epoxy?

I used a grinder on the top of the Glastron. Never again. It was way to invasive. Sanding is a lot of work. I am going to look into bead blasting for the deck (which needs to be completely stripped). I tried filling straight from sanding/grinding, but ended up putting a layer of resin over the whole thing and then did my filling. Made the process a lot easier and ended up using filler more efficiently, therefore used less. It is almost ready to prime and paint.

welcome daniel,my shortcut method isnt the best way,but it does make it a bit easier,i 1st sand with 80 grit(i have never used anything more than 80)its too easy to cut too deep,i then work my way down to 220,then the important part it to blow off all the dust with a compressor so the resin gets into the cracks.
after blowing out the cracks run a tack cloth over everything.

the tricky part is next,lol,be sure to mask anything you dont want resin on,then mix your resin,i like the clear 2 part from west marine with the pumps.

mix your resin then quickly pour it into a paint tray,use a smooth foam paint roller,and work quickly.(the resin will probably eat the foam roller after your done,lol)i usually use a short/small foam roller.
as you put it on it should flow out level ,filling in the cracks,as it sets up,stop and quit putting it on.
becarful of runs.
then sand it smooth and dull,if it needs another coat go ahead and put it on.then sand again with 220 or finer,it just needs to be dull for the paint to stick.

next paint ,i use auto paint,either enamal,or base coat clear coat,john p.s. dont forget the primer before the paint,i like self etching primer,others may like other types.they will all work.

John,

are you using any sort of "thickner" in your "coating resin"?
(maybe to "heavy cream" consistency????)

yours, satx

John,

are you using any sort of "thickner" in your "coating resin"?
(maybe to "heavy cream" consistency????)

yours, satx

satx,you can if you want to,but i dont.john

Hi All- I don't want to hijack anyones post here but I am up to my eyeballs in this Bow piece - and everything in this post is relating to what is going on for me... I plan on laying another layer of glass on the underneath for various reasons.. 1. the huge crack. 2. The edges seem so thin if I don't I fear all of this work will be nothing. 3. The steering wheel attaching board and the whole front of the dash is so pathetically wimpy I am surprised it is still there. 4. I am sure there are more reasons... someone added supports at one time and tried fixing the crack from the top. It obviously didn't work. I now know that I need to sand all of the gelcoat off this bow and start over basically. If I can't fix this bow piece there isn't much sense in proceeding in this whole project. Once I get to glass on the top could I not put new glass over it as well? or?? I am NOT using wood (as was originally) for the top rail. I will be using 1.5"x 1.5" 3/16" groove cut alum angle to beef this whole entire bow issue, and gain strength for the future mounting of the steering and other added bracing. I also plan on trimming back the ends of the last 2 pics because I can't figure out for the life of me on how to fix those. The rest of the boat is sanded down to gelcoat and I see no need for anything but simple hole patching / some scratch filling - there is really no huge issues anywhere else. Any input and thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

I am attaching pictures for all to see.

I'd beef that up with a few layers of glass mat from underneath. Then I would grind the crack with a small tool like a dremel to get the bad glass ends out. Then I would put a layer of chopped glass like Tigerhair or Duraglass into the crack. Sand it smooth and maybe a layer of glass over that. Blend it in.

OOPS more pics are coming up. Is that shrinking body puty? I'd dig that out and have another look. Maybe fill it with some glass product and mat over it. The edges can be sculpted with care. Yes I know it's lots of work but it is a challenge. I like a challenge. Look at my Winner.

shrinking body putty and more .... I thank you for the great input - it is much appreciated - I am in process of removing all the gelcoat off the bow and now I have discovered that the splashwell is in need of gelcoat removal as well... after I remove the seemingly 3 lbs of epoxy the pipestone boys put over the wood pieces under the splashwell... - completely covering the removal screws .. looks like cutting is in order. I HAD thought someone else had put all that epoxy on the bow piece.... now I think otherwise... I may need to PM you concerning some other issues. Is this ok, Robert?

Time for a new question:
The project I will be working on, was once a bumper boat at an amusement park. All along the side hull there are holes from what looks like 3/8 to 1/2" holes, where the bumpers were attached, Is the peanut butter mix good enough to fill the holes, are they to big, or should it be fiberglass combo of matt and cloth layers ?
What and where are the best uses for the peanut butter ?

I'll help anyway I can. I'm usually here everyday. One thing we have to remember, When they built these old boats they probably never gave the thought of what someone would do with them in lets say, ohh 60 years. Most of the materials have held up pretty well, and then some not.

Anything below the water line or in high stress areas I used layers of mat and cloth from the inside, some filler on the outside just for fairing, "cosmetic" areas just the filler. I believe any hole bigger than 1/4" should get some "structure" (mat and cloth), just my opinion. Others with more experience may have better advice, but it seems to be working well Chuck.

Hey guys I know that this post is a little bit dead but I would like to liven it up a little! I finally got done with the trailer and now I am ready to start in the boat. My question is how far down do I go when sanding? I started in a little bit do you go till you can see spots of fiberglass amidst the little bit of gel coat that is left or do I do into the fiberglass a little more to get rid of the little dots of gel coat that are left? Any help would be great fellas and gals! Thank you all!
Sincerely Chance

I honestly would not have gone down to the mat if my gel was not so badly damaged. My cracks were all the way down. Look at this pic close. This was an edge. I took this pic to show how deep my cracks were. I'm thinking of all the work it took, and it makes me tired. If you look close at this pic I was using a small disc sander at the time. But I've been doing bodywork all my life. I did much of it by hand. I'd go only as far as you can to get the damage out.

Mr Robert
Most of my gelcoat is the same the cracks go all the way down into the bottom of the gel coat as well. Im using my random orbital sander with some 40 grit to take the gel off reall quick then jumping up as I get nearer to the fiberglass. Will I be able to shoot my gel directly over the fiberglass or do I need some sort of sealant over the glass to shoot the gel?
Sincerely Chance