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Original Flying Scott... should I even try?
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TOPIC: Original Flying Scott... should I even try?

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #65923

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Hummm... I think I'll go here next.

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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #65926

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What is "the issue"? Won't spin? Won't engage?

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #65930

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Won't spin "up". I'm told it turns the motor about 1/4 of a turn and can't turn any more. (Motor turns by hand and I turned the motor using the starter w/o the spark plugs installed when I bought it.)

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #65932

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Check to see if the gear teeth are bottoming out in the flywheel ring gear. If there is too much tension there, it will turn very hard. A few thin shims to adjust the spacing might help.

Just a thought. I've never worked on a Scott, but I've had this problem with other machines.

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #65933

If the 60 HP Flying scott takes the same starter as the 40 HP Royal scott, mine is a AC Delco and costs around $80

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #65934

That looks to be a very common field case from AC Delco. Why cant they just get another field case and put your armature and drive in it?

Usually when it just turns a little its because one of the magnets on the field case is cracked.

Does it bench test okay? If it dose than something is catching in the engine.

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #65965

My starter rebuild guy can't get parts for my 35 hp Golden Jubilee. I told him just today I managed to get a totally new starter for $66.30 on ebay. He could not believe it.

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #65971

I have ownd many scotts, The early ones have issues with starters. allways! lol. as time went on the improvements allways included a bigger starter. I think 3 different all together. in 64 it was much bigger and was a good starter. A 75.2 hp power head will bolt right on your existing tower.
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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #65987

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Thanks for the help everyone!

Littlefin: Does it bench test okay? Yes that's whats making me a little nuts. I've got the motor guy and the starter guy pointing at each other. It shouldn't be this hard.

Ponyboy: What starter did you end up using? Any help with P/N would be great.

Also I got a note today from Don Webb "Scottguy" he thinks he has one for me.

I will get this sorted out.... so any thoughts about running a smaller motor in the harbor salt? Or should I just go for it?

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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re: Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #65988

There is a later model 75 hp starter on ebay. Search for "McCulloch outboard"

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Re: Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #65997

Oh The price we pay for what we want sometimes. And no it should not be this hard. :angry: :angry: :S :angry: :angry:

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #66018

Good, it benches out ok.

Now try it on the motor with out spark plugs in it. If it turns over then its not a mechanical hitting problem. It would be a firing against it's self problem. Like crossed spark plug wires or 180 degrees out on timing.

Also check all wire and cable connections for any corrosion. This could cause it to read full battery power until it is put under a load. Then it drops to nothing due to resistance from corrosion. (I hate when that happens)

Keep going we can get you through this.

Its only a machine - but man can they be a pain in the (Lower Part of the Human Torso).
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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #66064

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It would be a firing against it's self problem. Like crossed spark plug wires or 180 degrees out on timing.

That's interesting! I will look at that too.

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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #66069

Disconnect the plug leads and ground them out with test leads or screwdrivers. They must remain grounded when you try to crank the engine, or the coils can be ruined by flash-over of the winding insulation. Leave the plugs in the engine. The starter should be capeable of cranking the snot out of the engine. If not, there is a malfunction. A competent starter technician should be able to tell you the exact condition of the starter in a matter of moments.

If the starter lacks torque or speed - check these areas:

Worn bushings
Worn brushes
Field coil shorted (check the Ohms of EACH coil)
Cracked housing
Starter drawing too much/too little current.
Sections of Windings in the armature shorted together

We have a brilliant starter guy here in Redding, if it is the starter - he can probably repair it. Coils and armatures can be rewound - it's done all the time.

PS - try bypassing the starter relay to eliminate that as a problem too. The contacts inside can burn up but still pass limited current to the starter motor.

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #66132

how about a pic of this starter-engine. and could you mesure the lenght of the black case. I have some nos parts Im not ever going to use for the earlyer motors.
Oh and by the way, these engines are VERY easy on fuel!
and what Bruce said about the cables is oh so true when it comes to these scott motors,the old ford style starter relay can cause you to loose alot of voltage to the starter, and since its under powered it can cause even more problems. I added a ground strap at the starter bolt to the bolt holding the relay to the pan to help one that would Somtimes not crank more than 3-4 revolutions. also make sure your ign timming isnt to far advanced.
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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 2 months ago #66272

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Ponyboy: Thank you! I will take a look at these suggestions. We will look at starter relay and adding the ground strap. Hopefully will have more/better news later this week.

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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 1 month ago #68489

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As an update I sprang for the $200 eBay starter. Dropped it off and went out of town called the boat yard a week later and they said "yeah that one is junk too, spun a couple of times and smoke came out of the starter." Hummm... everytime I spoke with them over a 10 week period they wanted to sell me a new motor.

I love this Scott and I've decided to make it my winter project. I picked up the boat last weekend. To make myself feel better this weekend I re-installed the newly upholstered seats and carpet. It has a new cover and next I'm going to pull the motor and go through it.

Everyone here has been a great resource. I appreciate the help.

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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 1 month ago #68495

And idea if the motor itself is similar enough to the one from the later McCulloch 45 to steal parts from? I've got one here:
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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 1 month ago #68513

Just maybe going off in the wrong direction here, but, does the motor turn or spin by hand with the plugs out? Can you turn it 5 or 6 complete turns easyly? Also can it turn with the plugs in? I can't see why you are having such a hard time with the starters smoking out like you are. Did you try the starter with the plugs out at all. Just kinda wondering, good luck. Skip.

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 1 month ago #68575

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Yes. I did spin the motor with the plugs out when I bought it. So I believe the motor is OK.

My current plan after the starter comes back (the ebay seller guaranteed it for a year, so they are going to go over it again and send it back to me). I will replace the solenoid, battery cables, battery, and add a ground strap to the starter. Then I will verify the plug wiring and check the advance. Then I'll spin the motor w/o plugs. If everything looks good then I'll put the plugs and and see what happens.

Once I have some results I'll report back with the "facts" as I'm not sure what the boat yard actually did or didn't do.

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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 1 month ago #68576

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Chinewalker wrote:

And idea if the motor itself is similar enough to the one from the later McCulloch 45 to steal parts from? I've got one here:


It may be the same housing but the mounting bracket is different. But thanks for looking for me.

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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 1 month ago #69346

here you can see the different starters they used on the 3 cyl from the left is the 60hp starter then the 2 ,75s
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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 1 month ago #69347

the issue is that the ports for the fuel pump tubes are in the way. they will however bolt up.

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 1 month ago #69351

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great thanks. I'm waiting for our desert heat to subside and I will be digging into this. Thanks! --S.

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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 13 years 1 week ago #70445

Hey. I found I have 2 of these short 60hp starters and 1 NOS armature. I dont have any way to test them other than to ck with a battery, they both spin quickly, If your interested send me an email. or PM

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 11 months ago #70991

Hey I got your email, it was lost in my spam folder, I sent ya one back.

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 11 months ago #71009

Not sure if you have had any luck with your issue yet but I had a totally different motor with the exact symptoms you describe. It turned out the carb had allowed a gas and oil mixture to leak into the crankcase with enough volume to hydro-lock the motor during cranking. It would smoke the starter with the plugs installed but cranked at full speed with them removed. After the crankcase was drained it worked perfectly. Mine had been sitting for quite some time with the gas lines attached. Just a thought.

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 11 months ago #71013

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PonyBoy: Thanks for the email. Just waiting to get back my starter from the shop. I'll email you if I need parts. Thanks!

Wrangler: Great tip, and it makes perfect sense I will add it to the check list when I start my troubleshooting.

All: You are all awesome, I really appreciate the insight.

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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Putting my Flying Scott 60 back together 12 years 5 months ago #77156

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Quick recap... I dropped off the boat to local outboard shop last spring and they had it all last summer, saying the starter(s) were bad. When I picked up the boat they had it disassembled. (I even had to go back and get my starters). My battery cables were thrown away etc.

I have a new starter, new starter solenoid and new battery cables and I am going to progress with your suggestions to trouble shoot this.

- Plug wire order
- Add a ground strap at the starter bolt to the bolt holding the relay to the pan
- Make sure the ign timing isn't to far advanced.
- verify no hydro-lock the motor during cranking.

Do any of you have photos of the starter side of the 60-61 red-head assembled? Here's what I have right now:
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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 5 months ago #77189

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Here's a photo of my 58-59 donor motor. But the setup is all different because of the 3 coils.
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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Here's the Flying Scott 60 Wiring Diagram 12 years 5 months ago #77334

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Located this in the service manual...
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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Here's the Flying Scott 60 Wiring Diagram 12 years 5 months ago #77345

do you have the big box with the voltage regulator?

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 5 months ago #77400

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Sure do, its behind the back seat mounted to the transom.

I hooked everything up today. New starter, new battery, new starter solenoid, new battery cables. I have 12V at the starter and it spins great with the plugs out. Put in the plugs and It turns about a 1/2 a turn and stops. I checked the plug wire order and everything is in place the points look great.

When the plugs are in and you turn the key the voltage drops to 9.5v when the starter loads up. I've got my buddy coming over tomorrow and we are going to step through the systems.

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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 5 months ago #77413

Sorry if I've missed this, but have you tested or replaced the battery? It sounds like you have a bad cell.

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 5 months ago #77465

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The beast roared to life. OK more like a Breapp, Brearpp, Berapp... but it was spinning. The new battery required a full charge and I kept it on a charger over night but it turned over the motor. Then we dug through the fuel system and got it to fire. Once, my el-cheapo starter relay stuck and the starter just kept turning and turning and I had to disconnect the battery. We put the old made-in-the-usa starter relay back in and it was just fine. So much for the "insolvable" starter issue.

On to fuel, I decided to pull all three carbs and found one to have a messed up metering rod spring and pin. I pulled a carb off my donor motor but it is a different so I couldn't steal the parts. Here's what I need anybody know where I can get one? (It's a pretty simple part so I will make one if needed.)

The motor has an aftermarket fuel pump on it so I pulled then one from the donor motor and I'm going to go through it and might put that one on. Looking forward to burning some fuel soon!
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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 2 months ago #80903

I am working on getting a '59 Flying Scott 60hp up and running and this thread and your blog have been very helpful! keep it up, the boat looks great!!

Even with your list of interchange part numbers from your blog, I still have not been able to locate a starter. I am posting a WTB on aomci now.

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 2 months ago #80906

Dan Hillsberry,

WELCOME ABOARD.

yours, satx

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Resistance to tyrants is obedience to Almighty God.
Thomas Jefferson, 1803

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 2 months ago #80911

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Dan... Welcome! I don't have an extra starter (that works) but I believe Ponyboy does. PM him, he's a great guy.

I do have a '59 parts motor (that I took the starter and fuel pump off). I'm holding on to it in case I need any lower parts. If you need anything else let me know.
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1960 Dorsett Belmont w/ 60 HP Flying Scott aka \"Whisky Tango\" dorsettbelmont.blogspot.com/ Read my Jerky Blog at JerkyAficionado.com

Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 2 months ago #80916

I can fix starters, so if I can find one I may be interested in your non working one. I am working with The Scott Guy on getting a starter but it may not include the nose piece. do you have that?

I will pm Ponyboy

Thanks!

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Re:Original Flying Scott... should I even try? 12 years 2 months ago #80928

OMG....I took all I had to scrap this week.......sorry

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