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TOPIC: New Motors Old Boats
New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60914
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I love old stuff. I especially love old mechanical stuff. From my 1924 Toaster to the 1941 Evinrude to my 67 Jeepster, I'm really an old stuff kind of guy. However, I am also a wizard with mechanical stuff. I can make old crap work better than almost anyone I know.
I do understand people who lack mechanical skills and don't like to tinker, putting new motors on old boats. It's about the enjoyment of your boat after all. So lets be clear! I have no problems with your new motor as long as it stays on YOUR boat!!! LOL What I do have a problem with is how darn ugly and uninspired new boat motors are. I was never a Mercury guy, but I really liked the styling of the tall thin Mercurys especialy in the pre-black era. The Scott Atwaters were interesting in their shapes and designs. Of course, as a hard core Brooks Stevens fan, OMC always gets my vote. I'd like a bounce around some ideas on ways to make new motors (1970's and up) more inconspicuous on old boats. If that is of interest to anyone, post something up. Try your skills at photo shop or another electronic method of getting ideas out there. I'll do the same. Maybe we can have a retro look design contest or something. What do think? |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60915
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Works for me, but you may be opening a can of worms here. Skip.
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60920
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I have thought a lot about this. I have a 1959 Tomahawk Spirit with a 1984 Johnson 50. A primary reason I did this was because I sometimes run the boat in salt water and the newer motors tend to handle that environment better.
When most people look at a motor, the only thing they are really looking at is the hood. Below the hood, the basic design hasn't changed all that much in the last 60 years. My thought is to figure out how to adapt a vintage hood to a newer motor. What you would most likely need to make is some kind of adapter flange. Probably have it cast aluminum. Also, you would need to take a look at which of the old hoods would look good with the particular newer motor. Could work? I know I may be talking heresy, but it is an option. |
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Todd (aka thetudor)
1964 Custom Craft Aqua Ray 1959 Glastron Seaflite 1959 Tomahawk Spirit |
Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60929
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if you have the bolt pattern of the area where the pan bolts onto the new motor and an outer shape of the old cowl, it shouldn't be that hard to cut on a waterjet. you'd need some sort of flange too but, again, that's waterjettable. some small screws up through the pan would allow you to secure the flange to the pan. the only issue would be depth. the pan would have to be deep enough that once you mount the hood on it, the motor and all accessories will fit. i'd say it's more do-able that it would first appear, assuming the hood fits over the powerhead. if you had to take it to someone and pay full retail for the watercutting and whatnot, it wouldn't be cheap though.
you could use a similar process to make the thing by hand too. the pan, anyway. the flange will likely be fragile and complex enough that it would be best on a waterjet. if you wanted to save money and knew your way around a drafting program well enough, you could create a usable file for the machine, so you don't have to pay for design time. |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60938
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I don't think it would be that complicated. a hood from a fat 50 would fit over just about anything 'cept an inline 6 Merc. If you pull the powerhead off a newer motor and off the old motor the bottom cowls could be enginered to fit. Bolt 'em back together and slip on the "new" cover.
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60945
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Check out this nice Fat 50-
Purdy motor. One of my favorites. It's a Super Seahorse- One of my favorite old motors. Or is it? Look close. The COWL is an original. But everything underneath it is a modern YAMAHA. Super efficient, Reliable, and QUIET. The cowl was modified to fit the motor, with some very good 'glass work on the bottom of it. You'd never know it wasn't a 'real' fat 50, until it starts up, that is- And you don't hear it. Or see the oil slick on the water. This is the boat it's on- 
I think it's a great solution. I'd like to do it someday, I've got a spare cowl for a '59 Evinrude Fat fifty. I figure the easiest way to do it is to cut the bottom off the cowl of the donor motor, then 'graft' the fat 50 cowl on with some fancy glass work. With the right motor, it wouldn't be that tough at all. -Andrew |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60950
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Before my father died, I was considering grafting a selectric gear box onto the bottom of the 1941 Speedifour. Working a boat without neutral or reverse takes some agility on the part of the operator. Now my time line is extended. I just have to do it before I get too old to run it.
 That Johnson Fat 50 is a real piece of art! Yes, though squarer than the old 50, the lower part of the motor does not draw attention. |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60957
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I'm sorry to say this, But the only reason I fix up old engines is because:
1. There cheaper. 2. They look so dang COOL hanging on the back. That being said, I am not a purist in my Fly-fishing or my boat building. If I had the extra cash I would hang a New on when I was fishing. And hang the Old one on just to show off the boat. I really feel like a cheap whore admitting this. But have no fear I won't be buying a new motor anytime soon. |
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1963 Starcraft 14' Ranger
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60962
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littlefin wrote:
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60976
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Andrew, nice job with that conversion. I'm looking at a 1960 Johnson 75 for the Glastron and wouldn't mind having a modern motor with the same hood for more everyday/salt water use. I'm not sure it is in the budget (at least right now).
BTW, I don't think of myself as cheap, but 'reasonably priced'. |
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Todd (aka thetudor)
1964 Custom Craft Aqua Ray 1959 Glastron Seaflite 1959 Tomahawk Spirit |
Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60978
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It's all in what you want. I own a 52 Johnson, 57 Scott Atwater, a 25 hp Johnson about 59 and a 2003 Honda. The Honda hangs on my boat. It is super fuel efficient and quiet and it will troll all day on a gallon of gas. You have to run a fuel stabilizer. That sucker will troll at a speed so low you'd think it would shut off. I only fish though. My boat is not show worthy.
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60988
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anybody wanna trade me a 4cyl. honda in the 80-90hp range for a 62 merc 700 in exc. condition.
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60995
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60997
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I feel the same way about foreign/Asian motors as I do about foreign cars....NOT IN MY GARAGE/BOATHOUSE!
Honestly I buy old stuff because I know it was domestically produced. ENTIRELY domestically produced. Most components for most things were made in the good old USA before the 1970s. (and that's the way I like it) I don't have to worry about finding any @$&!$@ metric &@*&%&%#$ on my old stuff. |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #60999
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The only problem I have with the newer motors is that they are just tooo easy to find parts for or get service done on them. That plus the problem of always have gas left in the container at the end of the day. Now it would be nice if a person could make one of them big 200/250 hp engines look like a old Tower of power. But I would much rather send countless hours looking around for a set of point for my old dockbuster and making my own tools to try and take apart lower units. One good thig is that 11mm and 13mm wrenches will fit these old motors cause I seem to have collected a box full of this size over the years. Skip.
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61002
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Gee Skip, I have the same exact problems with newer motors...
Frank |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61010
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vuyosevich wrote:
Ron, If the Honda would be for your Custom Craft, forget it. Have you ever stood next to a Honda 90? It won't even fit on your boat - and would probably sink it too. Keep the Merc - make it work....... |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61020
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skipthescrounger wrote:
Well there is that....if it's new, it shouldn't need parts or service. |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61037
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I just spent 8 hours rewiring my 69 Johnson 55 hp. Fingers are bleeding, but the harness looks really good now that all the wires are the same color. I am 68.25% certain they are all connected to the right circuits. The electric shift is a thing of beauty as long as I don't have to re-do it a third time. The seals that I didn't replace are about 80% good.
The neighbor guy stopped over and said that it all looked real good to him. Then he asked me "What is it anyway?". So it passed the garage inspection. I told him it was ole reliable. And she's about ready to be put back on the boat for the big test, before fixing up the out side. I told him many stories about how this engine saved mine and many others life's. I explained that this is the one thing I can count on when the weather gets rough, to get us back to port. How I can tell exactly what she wants, just by the sounds she makes. Man how I love this engine. Then I asked if he felt the same way about his shiny new one. He said not exactly. But he was hoping I would follow him around the lake, just in case his had a problem and might need some help getting back to the dock. Well I didn't want to embarrass him in front of everyone so I just gave him a wink and said, "I think that would be a real good idea friend." |
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1963 Starcraft 14' Ranger
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61043
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Littlefin, I know what you mean about "old reliable". I have a Evinrude Starflite3 I feel that way about. I haven't used in in a couple years now, but even so, I'd launch the boat a quarter mile above Niagara falls, untested, and not think twice about it starting before I die.
Also, on the electric shift. An old OMC repairman I know, said the biggest problem with the electric shift was the control box being left out in the rain. Switches would corrode and then people would get mad and start to talk. That's where the misconception that the electric shift is bad comes from. |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61045
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littlefin wrote:
You're all right littlefin, welcome to the family.  |
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Mark
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61049
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Ron,
Leave that beautiful Merc 700 just as it is on the boat!!! One of the nicest looking boat and motor combinations to ever appear at Mt. Dora show. Besides, the Hondas are heavy, big, fat and ugly!!! Not your style for sure!!!! 
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Jim Savage
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61053
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jim, wow!!! what a compliment...thankyou
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61054
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What till he see's the size of my JOHNSON!!! LOL
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1963 Starcraft 14' Ranger
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61063
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Just for the record though, if I hit the lottery I WOULD hang a big ole ETEC off the back of the CVX-16!
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Mark
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61064
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If it were not for the problems I had with the ethanol in the gas I'd never had any trouble with my newer Honda. In fact I love it. It sat all winter and I primed it, waited a few seconds and pulled. She was alive. Due to my operation last year and being sick I put it away in late August or early September. Honda claimed my fuel hose and bulb were ethanol proof. I have pulled bigger boats than mine back to the ramp too. I only refused someone once. Two jetski's were doing circles around me while fishing in a weed bed several years ago. One got choked with weeds and the other left his buddy to face me. He asked for a tow back. He had to paddle that thing about a mile. He He.
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61068
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vuyosevich wrote:
If yer interested in a '63 1000, I may have a deal for ya later this year... Frank |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61077
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Hey Littlefin,
Whose Johnson is the biggest, yours or GlassparNuts!!! He is always bragging about his Johnson. |
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Jim Savage
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61078
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robert-lorigan; 67jeepster; all,
to robert: pardon me, but my old GALE SOVEREIGN (which my 1st cousin now has on his bassboat) sat UN-serviced/UN-winterized in a south TX dairy barn (covered with an army blanket) for over 20 years. after i bought it for 100.oo bucks at an estate sale, we changed out the impeller, put in new points/plugs/condensors (SIERRA brand), cleaned the carburater, put a new tank of gas/oil. she cranked right up & runs FINE, pushing his 16ft Skeeter. a 1964 HOMELITE 55 that i personally know of in NOLA started right up after a oil change, fresh regular gas & less than a hour of normal maintaince. it had been "just laying around" a New Orleans lumber yard since 1970. = a "bait shrimp dealer" still uses it every day of the season. to ALL: i don't like even the idea of tearing up 40-60YO antique outboards to make a "hybrid" of old & new. - every day that passes, these old OMC outboards get rarer & rarer & they (at least in my opinion)be preserved & where possible restored. (i guess that i'm a bit of an antique fanatic, but i don't even want a newer/older engine on any boat than the hull's "year", that i own.) yours, satx |
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Resistance to tyrants is obedience to Almighty God.
Thomas Jefferson, 1803 |
Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61079
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I'm curious why some people have problems with ethanol and some do not.
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61082
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67jepster; all,
the pre-'65 BIG TWINS, in my experience, don't seem to notice the difference. (i'd bet that i've owned/run at least a dozen of 25-40HP.) note 1: i'd "give my eyeteeth for" a 1963-4 Gale 60hp in good shape. note 2: my "PET OB" is an old maroon "long-foot"1958 ten-horse, which i paid 20 bucks for at a garage sale 2+ decades ago. - runs GREAT on my old wooden trotlining boat. i'd bet that i haven't put another 40 bucks in parts in it, in 20+ years.= cheap transportation on the lake. yours, satx |
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Resistance to tyrants is obedience to Almighty God.
Thomas Jefferson, 1803 |
Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61083
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the savage ii wrote:
I can't speak for GlassParnuts, but I know I'm not going to give Smiling Bob any competition. |
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1963 Starcraft 14' Ranger
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61087
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The gas formulas change region to region. We must get the worst of it. It gave me problems on and off for two years. The carb would be loaded with little black particles. Clean the system, clean the tank, clean the carb. Honda said the bulb and lines would not be the culprit. I got fed up and just started cutting. The line was OK but when I cut the bulb my fingers just turned black. I only buy two gallons at a time and used Stabil but regular Stabil is not for Ethanol. Get the marine or there are other makes out there. I use it in all my small engines now.
On the other hand I bought an old 52 Johnson 5 hp outboard that had been in storage at least 25 years. I put the gas to it and spun it with an industrial 1/2 Rockwell drill and it started and ran like top. |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61096
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That's why I wondered. My dad was a cheap skate. He couldn't stand paying extra for non-oxygenated fuel. About the second season after Ethanol become the rule, he started buying the cheapest gas just like he had always done.
81 Mercrusier (GM 4 banger) Never a problem 1939 Gray Marine I6 didn't start one spring, but no clogging or black deterioration of any kind. (he siphoned the gas out and put it in the van. Then the van wouldn't start. He would not believe me it was bad gas!!!) 79 Evinrude 55HP. Never a problem. 63 Evinrude Starflite 3 Never a problem. 70 Johnson 9hp Never a problem. 92 Evinrude 48HP never a problem. 41 Evinrude Speedifour Never a problem We do tend to run the gas out if it is going to sit for over a week, but it still stays in the gas lines from the tanks. |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61101
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Leave the Merc on it Ron
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61102
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What I do now is pull the hose off the outboard and leave it idle while I get the truck. It's dry then.
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61106
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robert-lorigan wrote:
That's what I was taught. Never leave 2 cycle gas in a motor. Always idle it dry. That could be what causes frustration for younger glassic owners who have not grown up that way. Crap! even 2 cycle is almost nonexistent any more. I'm the only one on my block with a 2 cycle lawn mower.....OMC product, Of Course! Now I gotta find me an Evinrude Snomobile. |
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Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61108
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jepster676,
bet you don't have a EVINRUDE CHAIN SAW. (one year only- 1959 i THINK i remember.) yours, satx |
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Resistance to tyrants is obedience to Almighty God.
Thomas Jefferson, 1803 |
Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61109
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SORRY for the triple post. - mouse stuck.
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Resistance to tyrants is obedience to Almighty God.
Thomas Jefferson, 1803 |
Re:New Motors Old Boats 13 years 9 months ago #61110
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sorry, triple post- my mouse stuck.
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Resistance to tyrants is obedience to Almighty God.
Thomas Jefferson, 1803 |
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