TOPIC: green vs blue Bow lights

Quite some time ago I asked either here or on the AOMCI board about the blue bow light on my old Lone star. I was told it was just faded. I didn't think too much more about it. I've since gotten several other boats that had red/blue on the front.

Today I was visiting with an older fellow who teaches outboard mechanics and noticed that he collects bow lights. About half were blue in the starboard side. I asked if they'd all faded or what, as it didn't appear they had. He said that back in the 50's maybe into the 60's blue was normal. I don't know if it was both blue and green, or why one or the other would be used. He couldn't recall when they changed to all red/green or why. I was on the lakes back then, but was only a teenager or younger and don't recall what lights were used, except the glow poles. I clearly remember them.

I guess the question I would ask is, what is the history on this? Was it a local thing, optional or? Heck, I don't recall us ever putting numbers on a boat, and I know Missouri had boat registration at least since the late 40's.

I don't guess I could get away with using any of my blue green bow lights today.

When you run a light that was used for rough service (as in bow or any place on a small boat) it did not burn white, however a bit on the yellow side
With the yellowest light showing through the blue lens it showed up as being green

Being it is near Christmas time take an yellow light and shine it through the lens...from around 10 feet or more it will look to be green

With the improvements in the making to lights over the last 40+ years they now almost burn near white

Many were a bulb with a filament that would not be white hot at 15 v however they would burn white (and last for days) at 18 V...some what the way a rough service bulb that you buy for a drop light is...take the banging around but a bit yellow

I do not know about tour local boys, however The USCG and every TP&W officer I talked to will not ticket you for using them

Then again you could use a yellow bulb, or add some yellow lens to the inside of the light

Since the 70's Blue lights are only for law enforcement. But yes a yellow light shining through a blue lens would give a green light.

my quick fix for this was to take yellow 'lens tape' and apply it on the back of the lens, this will make the blue lens shine -green- when light is on which is when it has to be green...not when it is off. most of the lenses i have seen have a smooth surface facing the bulb making for a rather easy application.

The yellow filter 'fix' seems like the best way to go- I've got a few lights with blue lenses. I can tell you that they are NOT faded- Several of them are NOS.

Keep in mind that although you probably would never get ticketed for it, you COULD be. It technically is not a proper lighting configuration, and would certainly be considered to be a contributing factor if an accident occurred.

In my Maritime Law class back in college, One of our 'case studies' involved a lawsuit where a cigarette type boat ran over the tow wire between a tug and barge tow at night at speed. It happened a number of years ago up on Lake Michigan. It was, or should have been, a pretty clear cut case- The Cigarette boat should have avoided the tug/tow- But for one reason or another failed to recognize that they were connected. A number of people died in the cigarette boat, including some with connections, so the investigation went above and beyond the 'usual' to try to put the tug/tow at fault. They went so far as to test the running lights on the tug and barge for proper characteristics- Including range and luminosity. Absurd, yes- But if they had failed, they would have been found at least partially at fault in the incident.

-Andrew

Along the same line concerning light problems, I spend a fair amount of time on the water and it astounds me how many boats I see on the water with the red and green reversed.

Another more common problem is stern lights on power boats that cannot be seen 360 degrees. I got hassled one time - actually the night of Y2K, Dec 31, 1999 - by some city water cop on lake Austin,
Tx when we anchored out overnight. We had no Y2K problems out there, but he didn't like my anchor light and gave my a ration of s... while his stern light couldn't be seen but about 180 degrees. I started to give him some crap back but my wife intervened.

I'd say 50%, probably more, of the people on the water don't know how lights on a boat can be read or what they mean. And that's just the ones who go out at night!

As a Merchant marine officer, I spend a LOT of time on the water. Recreational boaters have a bad reputation, and deservedly so... There are all too many idiots out there. Oh, The stories I could tell... I bet that saying 50% know what the lights mean is a VERY generous number !

Reversed lights are all too common. Other violations of navigation light are pretty common as well. While working in the USCG Office Of Boating Safety we would go to boat factories and boat shows and look at boats for violations of Federal Standards. The most common, believe it or not, was hull Id numbers. They just can't seem to get it right.

But right behind that is Navigation Lights. At the annual Houseboat Expo in Louisville, one year, I found 90 violations of nav lights. Almost every boat in the show had at least one violation and some had four or five. Commonest was obstructed lights. But reversed red green lights are far too common. I could always find several boats at a show with reversed lights.

There have been numerous recalls of boats for incorrect nav lights.

But if the lights on your boat are wrong, it is also the boat owner/skippers responsibility under the law to make sure they are correct, and you will be the one who gets the ticket.

For small boats (under 20 feet) some of the more common ones are,

not enough vertical separation between the red/green and all around white light (the white light has to be one meter higher. That's 39.3 inches)

Light not aligned with the center line or vertical and horizontal sectors. (tipped up, tipped down, not visible directly forward, etc)

Bullseye lights below the gunwale that can't bee seen forward, and don't meet the vertical and horizontal sectors (unfortunately they are still legal on boats used on inland waters. They are not allowed on boats using international waters.)

Lights that are simply not big and bright enough to be seen the required distance.

I've sailed a bunch around the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico - oh, I guess the east coast and Bay of Campeche too - and learned that lights are important, and if they are correct, you can tell everything you need to know about right of way, direction, type of boat you're approaching and more in total darkness.

When we put our 37' sailboat on Lake Travis, near Austin, the capital of Texas, I was stunned how bad things were. Lighting, people's following navigation rules and more. Particularly bad was both power boaters and sailboaters understanding of right of way.

I went to the state Hq and asked for pamphlets that I might hand out and politely suggest they might want to read them. I found there was no mention of right of way as applies to sailboats, and it was severely lacking and in cases of power vs sail. It did mention that Inland CG rules were part of Texas law.

I found that was all they had, nothing else had been printed. I went the the head of Texas Parks and Wildlife and explained the problem. TP&W is the enforcement of water laws statewide, he was the head. He had no idea what the rules were. (I didn't find anyone who did) He had heard of the inland rules, but that was it. He had no idea what they were.

I offered to write an addition to their pamphlet. He said they'd think about it and get back to me. After a year I got tired of asking if they were ready. It's never happened. That was 1992.

Sometime I'll explain how I singlehandedly got them to start patrolling the lake at night and start enforcing the boating while intoxicated law!

But be warned that it can get scary out there, don't count on that other guy having any idea what he's doing.

....just found this thread, and it seems the actual question remains:
Does anyone know for certain, before laws were standardized, if these lenses were blue, or if they changed color? Even if you had a "slightly or even somewhat yellowed" bulb, putting it behind a blue lens may/would give a green or blue-green cast, but putting it behind a green lens would only make it a lighter green shade. So why not start with green?

Why wouldnt the red fade? I've see old cars with taillights that appear pinkish due to fading...

I have never accepted the "used to be green" theory, and the yellow bulb theory has its flaws... SOMEONE out there must have a brochure from a marine catalog that provees they are blue and always were blue! [regardless of what is required by law today]

I've determined that they really were blue, both from observing a number of lights that obviously weren't faded, and talking to a much older guy who's been in the buisness longer than most.

The open questions are, why? And when did it change?

I've since picked up a Sea King runabout that I believe is a 64 and it has blue running lights.

I have had and currently have numerous classic speed boats. Some from the 1950s and 1960s have the proper green lenses. The lenses are quite obviously green in daylight and at night when the navigaion lights are operational. I also have some boats with the lense being blue. Both 1950s and 1960s boats. I have never heard of blue lights being legal. I have always assumed that the lenses that are bluish have faded from the original and correct green. There must have been different type of glass and pigments used so that some fade and others do not.

Andreas

I wouldn't be surprised if some have faded, but assuming some did, it would be from UV and in that case it would not be faded in the spots that were not hit by light. I'm going to look at mine and see if I can sort out the two cases.

At any rate, I'm sure some were blue back then, just the details are missing.

My guess is it was before things were standardized nationwide. There are many examples of how things varied from state to state. For example, it was at least the mid 50's before hand turn signals were standard in all states. In Missouri up until the 70's, maybe later, red lights on a cop car were standard (still are) blue had no legal meaning. Of course, in many, if not most, blue lights behind you brought terror - in Mo. it didn't mean a thing, except, as a courtesy, you could let a volunteer fireman by.

Sirens on boats were common then, illegal now.

I'd guess that as the Feds instituted standard hin numbers and coast guard inland rules became state law as well, they got standardized.

Only a guess on my part, though.

i vote made that way...i have taken apart several blue bow lights that the blue is exactly the same shade under the chrome as in the center...if they all faded, wouldn't we see a lot of lights that are blue in the center changing to green where it's hidden under the pot metal?? just my observation...john

I know that several I have were blue- They are new lights, and not faded in any way... The plastic under the chrome is the same as the exposed.

I've also got one that HAS been used, and the blue is faded, but not as faded as the blue that's 'hidden' under chrome....

I have a book somewhere from the '50s that mentioned using either blue or red at night- but I cant seem to find it. I think that it had something to do with inland waters, but I can't recall. I'll keep digging!

-Andrew