TOPIC: 57 evinrude fastwin blue smoke

hey all

It's finally nice enough out to where I was able to try my 57 evinrude fastwin that I bought this winter. I've never started it before and had to figure out a lot about how it works.

Anyway I got it running and it starts just fine , however , it billows blue smoke. From my limited knowledge on motors I'm guessing its burning oil , and or buring gunk.

The metal gas tank had some really bad gas in it that I tried to empty out as best I can. The fuel lines also had bad gas in them that I cleared. But it's still blowing blue smoke.

The "fresher" gas I'm using is probably 2 or 3 years old from my old motor , maybe that's it? I also thought maybe it was too thick a mix so I added just regular non mix gas to it to thin it out but still smoke. Almost as if the motor isn't suppose to have mixed gas would be a good way to explain it.

any thoughts? I myself think either my gas it too old , still too thick , or isn't suppose to be mixed at all which would be really bad lol.

The old outboards all smoked bad & left a rainbow on the water.

The oil ratio was probably as rich as 24:1 back then.

Actually I had to look up the original gas tank stickers to figure out what the problem was (mine was repainted).

I'm using 2 cycle outboard oil when the tank says to use just regular s.a.e 30 automotive oil. opps. lol . I hope I didn't wreck the motor.

HI;

Don't worry about trying to find SAE30 oil, that was all that was available in 1957 so they couldn't spec TCW3 that we use today. I have 50+ vintage motors in my collection including a never run 1957 Fastwin (see pics below) and all my runners get a steady diet of TCW3. The old SAE30 will carbon up and pollute a lot more than the new oils. If you want to feel a bit more green you can use synthetic 2 stroke oil also. The correct fuel mix is 24:1, 1 quart of TCW3 to 6 gallons of gas (try to get ethanol free fuel if at all possible) You can reduce the mix to 32:1 with synthetic (doesn't smell right to me!) You don't say in your post but I am assuming that you ran the motor in a barrel of water, by doing that the exhaust swirls up all around the motor and it looks a lot worse than it is when used on a lake. That said there will be a blue trail following you whenever you run a vintage motor. One thing you want to do for sure is get rid of the old gas and mix up a batch of fresh. By adding fresh gas to the old you have thinned it out and may cause major damage to the motor if you run it on mystery mix. The 18hp is a super runner and will provide plenty of go on a 14' boat with a couple of passengers along for the ride. Like I always say oil is cheap and plentiful, parts are expensive and getting harder to find.

Al

so today i finish wiping the dust off my Motor and she still look very shinny under all of those dry up dusts.I would like to get her fire up and see how she ran but i don,t know what the mix for this engine is . can you let me know. the leg does not have a place to put water to ran it so what is best put a big barrel under it with water?

HI; Before starting the motor I would do the following, check the ignition coils, wires, point gap and condition, and sparkplug gap and condition. Next would be to drop the lower unit and check that the impeller is nice and soft not stiff, cracked or broken. Once those items are OK mix up a fresh batch of 24:1 (ethanol free fuel if possible) fill a barrel up to the point where the impeller housing is completely submerged (I usually fill the barrel until the water is 2" above the rear bolt that holds the LU on) so the pump self primes. Hook up the tank and pump the button on the tank until resistance is felt to ensure that the carb bowl is full. Set the low and high speed needles in the following manner, turn both needles clockwise until the gently seat then turn the low speed out 1 1/2 and the high out 3/4 of a turn this should allow the motor to start. Pull the choke and pull the cord as soon as it starts and runs for a few seconds push the choke in. Once you get the motor running with the choke off adjust the low speed for best idle. To adjust the high speed you will need to run the motor on a boat at wide open throttle and adjust the high speed for best performance. After getting the high speed done return to idle and fine tune the low speed.
Al

when i bought this engine there was a receipt in the cowl show that they do a lot of work have done to it for the amount of $878.00.but that was in 06/13/2008.I know this is a dumb?How do i know where the impeller house is how far up from the metal plate that sit above the blade.thanks

HI;
The impeller housing is the bulge directly above (about 4") the anti cavitation plate. Can you list the details of the service order, if it was all gone over in 2008 it should be good to go with no work at all.
Al

Al, I'm so glad you jumped in there with that info! I was dying to say DON'T use SAE motor oil so much I was choking. (I've been wrong so much lately, guess I'm a little gun-shy. ) Fresh gas (LESS than three months old) IS very important, and exact oil/fuel mix is also.

In my part of the US, (southeast), we can't get anything but the 10% methanol, so I'm now using Sta-Bil marine which is supposed to help fight the negative effects of same.

Here's a pic of a "run barrel" I just built with a drain valve in the bottom. The back pressure on the exhaust will effect the idle tuning if you run it without being submerged as you suggested, I'm told.

Both of you have some Beautiful old OMC's, BTW!

Another 'can't type it fast enough' point of advice... Get a manual for your motor! Even if it is one of the generic Seloc or Clymer ones!

Also, don't 'test' the motor before checking it out. You can conceivably damage the motor if certain things aren't inspected first.

If you're going to check the impeller - replace it while you're in there. A broken impeller blade can work its way into the cooling passages, causing all sorts of issues later. Don't go by 'it looks okay'. Impellers are cheap insurance. Most impellers for the older OMCs are still available as nearby as your local Evinrude dealer. Even NAPA carries them!

ALL pre 1964 Johnsons & Evinrudes (and Gales, too) should be run on the 24:1 mix. Some people may lean that out a bit with good results, but fuels and oils vary so what works for one person may not work for another, particularly long term.

Another good idea is to do a decarbon once you get the motor running well. It comes in a can, made by SeaFoam, called Deep Kreep. Other variations also made by Mercury and BRP (Evinrude). Idea is to loosen up built-up carbon inside the motor, particularly in the piston rings and exhaust. Running richer oil mixes means carbon builds up over time, losing compression, reducing efficiency in the process.

- Scott

What happened , were two threads merged or something?

Anyway , so now I'm not suppose to use s.a.e 30 motor oil with the motor? Not to mention this isn't just a little blue smoke , it's really a LOT of blue smoke. Like it really doesn't like the blue newer oil that I was using. I have both a 60's johnson and 60's mercury that do not blow blue smoke like this at all with that new stuff , so the whole "it's and old motor and blows blue smoke all the time" sounds kinda lazy to me.

I just filled the tank with fresh gas and really don't want to add more of the new blue oil if it'll just keep making it smoke. Then I'll have 6 gallons of gas the motor doesn't want you know? There anything wrong with at a least trying the s.a.e 30?

Hmmmm.....I've been running 50:1 with modern 2 cycle oil as long as I can remember in the 59 Larks and was planning to run that mix in the 62 Larks too. I'm trying to think why (always dangerous) if most 2 cycle motors today use 50:1 you can't use 50:1 on an older motor.

emosun, the main debate (only) is the mix ratio, not the type of oil to mix with. If you'll review the posts, nobody suggests using sae 30 engine oil in a two stroke! (This happens to me all the time, don't feel bad.) The gas you were testing with was old and an unknown mix ratio, according to what I read above. It is not uncommon for a motor to smoke excessively when first started after a long storage period. The previous owner may have (and hopefully) "fogged" the motor with some oil to prevent corrosion, among other things like the idle jets needing tweaked.

Scott is trying to caution you about making sure you have cooling water coming thru the motor, which if not can take out a new impeller in a hurry not to mention severe engine damage! Even a few minutes without water is BAD!!! A new impeller every couple of years is cheap insurance, and generally the rule of thumb. Even if it hasn't been run since '08, the rubber ages and becomes hard, lessening it's efficiency and making a broken blade a possibility.

emosun wrote:

What happened , were two threads merged or something?

Anyway , so now I'm not suppose to use s.a.e 30 motor oil with the motor? Not to mention this isn't just a little blue smoke , it's really a LOT of blue smoke. Like it really doesn't like the blue newer oil that I was using. I have both a 60's johnson and 60's mercury that do not blow blue smoke like this at all with that new stuff , so the whole "it's and old motor and blows blue smoke all the time" sounds kinda lazy to me.

I just filled the tank with fresh gas and really don't want to add more of the new blue oil if it'll just keep making it smoke. Then I'll have 6 gallons of gas the motor doesn't want you know? There anything wrong with at a least trying the s.a.e 30?

I don't think 2 threads merged Commander had similar questions and just jumped in on it.
Nope SAE30 is not the best choice for the motor. As I stated above it can cause carbon build up and does not readily evaporate when dumped out of the motor into the water. The lubricating qualities of TCW3 is much better than the old SAE30 as it was designed specifically to be mixed with fuel and it has high volatility so it burns well. The blue colour of the oil is simply there to allow you to know it's in the gas as it turns the gas blue and has nothing to do with the amount or color of the smoke. I am assuming that you are running 50:1 in your 60's motors which is half the 24:1 mix that the 57 requires therefore 1/2 (or less) the smoke.
Don't concern yourself with the amount of smoke I assure you it is normal and when you get the motor all set up and dialed in (see my response to commander) running on a lake the smoke will not be as bad as in the test barrel. That said, these motors smoke a LOT is not the lazy answer, it's simply a fact!!

To Crosbyboat; Luckily your 59 and 62 Larks differ little (all bearings no bronze bushings and a thermostat) from the 1965 model when OMC recommended 50:1 for the first time. The new recommendation was due more in part to the improvements to the oil than any change to the motor. Although it is unlikely you will damage the Larks using good quality TCW3 at 50:1 I would recommend you go to a 32:1 mix just to be safe. If you are running synthetic oils 50:1 is just fine.

To all others reading this thread: The above comments ONLY apply to the 35 and 40hp OMC models made from 1959 and up the smaller (and older) motors continued to use some bronze bushing and NEED the original mix to ensure a long and healthy life. Here are the original mix ratios for OMC motors made from 1950 to 1964 by horsepower
3, 5, 5.5,& 7.5hp mix 16:1 TCW3
10,12,14,15,18,25,28,30,33,35,40,50 & 75 hp mix 24:1 TCW3

Try to avoid ethanol if at all possible, check with your local Shell station as the Vpower line of fuel is ethanol free in most states and all Canadian provinces

Consider this, These motors that we are talking about here are between 47 and 60 years of age and for the most part still run as well today as they did when they were made. I believe that this is due in part to the heavy oil mix that was specified by the manufacturer as the oil has protected the guts of these things from wearing out. Is it really worth the risk of blowing up your vintage motor to save a few bucks in oil or reduce the level of smoke that the motor produces?
In the 70's OMC recommended a 100:1 mix, again based on improvements to the oils being used, this resulted in thousands of warranty claims for stuck engines and OMC quickly reverted back to 50:1.

As stated dircetly above, you have the oil ratios for OMC motors.

Can you run leaner? I would say yes for one step leaner. In other words, 16:1 can go 24:1. 24:1 can go 32:1. 32:1 can go to 50:1.

Oils have changed from TCW to TWC2 to TCW3. The oils are better & they have been reformultaed to work with todays gas. I only run OMC or Mercury oils. That is not to say there is anything wrong with other oils from motor manufacturers (Yamaha & Suzuki).

As for synthetics or synthetic blends, they are required on some later motors (E-tec & Optimax) but remember, these motors run higher RPM & use a variable ratio oil as lean as 300:1 at idle.

As stated above, oil is cheap & parts are not. I recommend OMC XD-30 oil when available. Avoid ethanol if possible. The quality oils will work OK with it, but o-rings, seals, gaskets & cork floats don't like it.

Brian, so long as your engine has roller bearings, you won't have harmed anything.

Jim

As stated dircetly above, you have the oil ratios for OMC motors.

Can you run leaner? I would say yes for one step leaner. In other words, 16:1 can go 24:1. 24:1 can go 32:1. 32:1 can go to 50:1.

Oils have changed from TCW to TWC2 to TCW3. The oils are better & they have been reformultaed to work with todays gas. I only run OMC or Mercury oils. That is not to say there is anything wrong with other oils from motor manufacturers (Yamaha & Suzuki).

As for synthetics or synthetic blends, they are required on some later motors (E-tec & Optimax) but remember, these motors run higher RPM & use a variable ratio oil as lean as 300:1 at idle.

As stated above, oil is cheap & parts are not. I recommend OMC XD-30 oil when available. Avoid ethanol if possible. The quality oils will work OK with it, but o-rings, seals, gaskets & cork floats don't like it.

Brian, so long as your engine has roller bearings, you won't have harmed anything.

Jim

Ok it finally stopped smoking with fresh gas and the tcw3 mix. I compared the gas I was using to the new gas , the gas I was using was slimey and greenish so the new stuff was much better.

Only problem now is the bucket I'm using it filling with grey colored slime from the motor. I think the lower unit is leaking

This is not uncommon, my '62 Merc700 did that when I first fired her up after sitting for 25+ years. I thought the same thing, but it turned out to be a combination of flushing out the cooling system and the oil in the gas we burn. It was a pretty heavily oiled mix of gas too, to make sure everything got lubed properly during start up, kinda like a break-in mix. I'd drain the barrel, check your gear lube level just to be safe, and put fresh water back in. You are getting water out the exhaust relief, right? (Not positive that motor has one, but think it does). GOTTA make sure she's pumping water, or it will become an expensive anchor.

The water is circulating and coming out of the exhaust. How would I go about checking the lower unit level?

There should be two screw plugs in the lower gearcase. The lower one is the drain and fill hole, the upper one is the vent and full level hole. Pull the top plug and the lube should be within a half inch or so of that opening.

The slime in the bucket is most likely NOT lower unit oil, rather it is the condensed version of what a 2-stroke leaves behind it on the lake. On the lake, evaporation and UV rays break it down. In your bucket, it doesn't get a chance to disperse.

Brian's motors have two things that many of the older OMC motors did not - roller bearings throughout and a thermostat. Those two items COMBINED will allow a motor to more or less handle 50:1 (in theory). I'd still richen it up a tad to 40:1 simply for the fact that 50 year old seals may need the extra oil to help in sealing...

And NO - do NOT use SAE 30 in a 2-stroke outboard!
- Scott

What can I also use to clean the gunk off the outside of the motor. It's just like black grease/gunk/dirt in all the corners from over the years. I'm going to be repainting the whole thing so just want the dirt out of those little corners so the paint will stick there too. I'm not going to be doing the whole "take the entire motor apart to paint it" thing. Just a new coat on the outside.

I already bought a little stiff brush and tried just brushing it off but I think I should be using some kind of degreaser maybe?

Believe it or not, I use aerosol brake cleaner! It's available at any auto parts store, I get the Advance Auto Parts brand cause it works just as good and is 1/2 the price of the other name brand stuff. It dissolves grease/oil in a heartbeat, and leaves the surface CLEAN. For heavier deposits you may need to spray, use your brush to break up the globs, and spray again.

Hi,

I'm new to outboards but not 2 stroke motors.

One of the things we see in race karts is when someone decides that if 1 oz of oil is good then 3 oz should be 3 times as good. What actually happens when you add too much oil is you lean out the mixture (fuel:air ratio) since the oil isn't really the same as fuel. It's kinda a hard concept to grasp, or, maybe karts are running much harder than outboards and this doesn't really apply. Just thought I'd throw my 2 bits in....

So, run the recommended mix ratio, not more or less if you want your engine to last.

John Matthews
Elk Rapids, MI