TOPIC: 1960 Lake N Sea restoration questions

Hey everyone, just a new guy here... I picked up this little 1960 Carribean last summer, and would like to refinish it and get her back into the water...

First question, I would like to replace the transom... the boat sat outside in the Pennsylvania weather for years and due to a slightly butchered transom, changed for the use of a shortshaft motor, water has seeped down between the wood substrait and fiberglass shell.. the previous owner also did some minor replacement with pressure treated 2X6's!!!!

Has anyone out there had their transom out of this type or a similar boat, and if so, would you be willing to share some pictures so I can get an idea of what kind of structure I am dealing with?

Secondly, the gel coat is checked in places and there are some areas needing some minor fiberglass repair... I do not want to re-gel coat, and would instead like to fill and patch the current finish and repaint... I have seen some on here say they use bondo for this type of work... if so, what brand or types have worked best for you with this old fiberglass??

Thank you in advance for any information and help... as I get into this, I will update everyone on my progress... cheers!

Regarding the transom: two methods come to mind.

1. A poured transom. There have been a few examples of transoms being poured in. Doing a quick searh for "pour transom" on the quick search box, here's a thread about Nida bond:

www.fiberglassics.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=13265#p13265

2. The other method I would use is to replace the whole transom with new wood. This would involve seperating the fiberglass skin from the wood transom. With the amount of fg surronding the transom that will be tricky.

It may sound drastic, but you might have to saw off the whole end, rebuild and put it back on.

On my Whitehouse which was rotted, I was able to remove all of the wood while leaving the outer skin intact. Then, since it was a curved transom, I used 1/4 marine ply with fiberglass cloth and epoxy to build out the thickness, essentially layer by layer.

So my result was skin/fg cloth/quarter ply/fg cloth/quarter ply/fg cloth/quarter ply etc. until it was about 2.5 inches thick.

If you can get some closeup pics of the inside and outside of the transom it could help.

looks like the transom could be replaced from the top, as most of it looks to already be exposed. Like kensikora said, may be a good canidate for seacast transom if glass on the inside is good.

To do the transom right you are going to have to split the dck from the hull. You will be time and work ahead to go ahead and split it than to try and patch it as a whole. Also, that boat was orignally a short shaft transom and someone modified it for a long sdhaft motor, and then evindently it was cut back down again for a short shaft motor. The transom wood is going to run from one side of the hull to the other so it's going to be very hard to replace from the top, unless you do a sea cast type pourable transom. With the repairs that need to be done to the deck to correct the butchered transom I think it would be easier to just split the boat and do it as it was originally built.

Splitting the top and bottom isn't that big of a deal. On the style you have you shgould be able to just remove the rubrail moulding and slip a jigsaw blade between the top and bottom and cut along the dotted line so to speak. The hardest part is usually seperating the splashwell from the transom under the deck, but if the wood is rotten it usually breaks free pretty easy.

As far as the cracks in the gel coat. The bad areas will need to be ground down with a Ro-Loc or Dremal tool and then be reglassed and faired smooth. If you simply fill the cracks with resin or filler they will crack back in time. You only want to use bondo as a skim coat to smooth up the fiberglass you laid and sanded down, not as a main filler or patch. The bondo will not hold up if the glass underneath is weak or damaged.

Those are great looking boats. Wish I could find one affordable and close to home. I have one of the Biscayne models, but would love to have a Carribean. Should be a beauty when it's fixed up!

Kensikora, Rick here. As far as the spider cracking,sand them with
150 grit,then use a good filler,Fiberglass Evercoat makes
a few good fillers.A fine chop fiberglas like Duraglas maybe needed
if cracks are deep or you have splits in hull and then use evercoat filler over duraglas and sand before primer.Sand fillers with 220
and use a 2 part primer and block the primer smooth.Any autobody
supply house will be glad to walk you through the process. I used
a basecoat clearcoat on my 59 Lake&Sea Carribean. Most use single
stage urethane,less coats and no clear.Hope this helps.

I have heard of both methods... comming from a woodworking background, I am leaning towards replacement of the core by laminating in a piece of or pieces of plywood... here are some more closeup pictures of the transom... you can see it has some minor cracking at the bottom due to freeze and thaw... I would like to get everything out and reinforce what is needed... my biggest hangup is to understand how structurally i would connect the 1-piece transom into the boat shell, so that I large motor just does not rip off... I must add that the current transom is solid... it supported a junk Evinrude 35 horse for many years when in the guy's yard... and does not give when my 300# frame hangs on it:)... so I'm open to suggestions... please find the attached pictures to further illustrate...

Everyone, thank you so much for the information, you have all been helpful!

Clasicfins.. thank you for the pictures and advice... is that your Biscayne pictured? If so, then I can see that there seems to be three stringers that support the floor?
You have described exactly what I have been thinking about over the last 6 months or so that I've owned it... I agree.. splitting it seems like a relatively simply operation, and I would love to get everything out in the open so that the repairs may be done right this time (Gotta get that darn pressure treated out! haha) I agree with you, I am in love with the boat's lines and if I'm going to take the time to re-paint it and get it sea worthy... then I need to repair it right first...

Rick... thank you too! Seeing your boat on the site this afternoon really really inspired me... these boats just look so darn good... and your's especially... wow... any chance you could share a picture or two of your dash? I will keep your painting advice in mind... the proof is in your picture... thank again for the info guys and keep it comming! haha... cheers!

Here's some shots of my family boat I redid the transom on a while back. Newer boat, and mine required one sheet of plywood to be cut differently than the other, but the principle is the same.

Basically, once you pop the deck off, most boats will require two 3/4" sheets of plywood to gain the correct thickness. After removing the old wood and cleaning the inner skin of the hull I lay wet mat/resin on my 1st sheet of plywood and then clamp it into place to dry. Then after it has dried I lay mat/resin on the 2nd sheet, lay it against the 1st sheet, and clamp and let dry. Then come back over the wood with a layer (or two) of mat/resin to seal it in. This is just a quick run through of pics to give you an idea of the process. Ignore the sloppiness it was a quickie job done over the weekend. LOL Hope this helps.

Doug

Oh and Rick, I see you're from Hidden Valley, PA? I'm in PA as well, near middletown... do you every get to the central PA area for boating?

Doug.. thanks a lot for the pictures... they really do help. I guess then to back-up the slight cracking at the bottom of the transom then, once the old wood was removed, I would lay in a thin fiberglass mech layer from the inside, then lay in the laminated pieces of plywood...


So tell me, it looks like you have laminated in the plywood to the outside skin of the hull, and then added two guessets on the inside at the end of the process... so the 'structural' nature tying the transom plywood to the rest of the boat would simply be the lamination of it to the fiberglass skin of the hull? I guess once the chemical process of the resin happens, everything basically becomes one?

Sorry for the clarrification of questions, but I've only worked on wooden boats thus far with my father...

retro54 wrote:

Everyone, thank you so much for the information, you have all been helpful!

Clasicfins.. thank you for the pictures and advice... is that your Biscayne pictured? If so, then I can see that there seems to be three stringers that support the floor?

The one in the pic is a '63 Winner I have in the shop at the moment. My Lake and Sea is still in one piece.. for now. LOL As far as the stringers go.. you can build pretty much any stringer design you want once you get the floor up. Here's one I built for a Tidecraft bassboat.

Retro54, Rick here, the 59 and 60 are the same look.
except My dash doesn't have the molded inlay the goes
around the middle of the dash.I'll send some interior
pictures. Also,I sprayed the entire boat with a product
called Polyester Spray Fill after body work.This product
will fill and smooth any areas that you maybe you
didn't block when spot primering.This is like spraying
liquid filler on boat.I wet sanded and painted.More work
but worth it.Any Auto paint store has a type of Poly filler.

Rick

Retro54 Heres more pics.

Rick

Retro54 Found one more,

Rick

Rick, thanks alot! your 59 is slick! I bet it cuts on the water really well.... what for motor are you running? looks like a seahorse?

Retro54,Engine is a 59 Super SeaHorse 35hp.
Finished boat too late in the season to launch.
Still need to restore engine and trailer by spring.

Rick