TOPIC: Sticky Rings 35HP Johnson

Hi,

I have a Johnson 35HP, It appears to me that the lower cylinder rings are sticky. There is quite a build up on them. Does anyone have any ideas on how to free them up?

The motor runs but smokes like it is on fire. Now I know 2 strokes smoke a bit, I have a two stroke tiller and owned many 2 stroke Motor Cycles.

Any Ideas on how to free them up without doing an upper end? Just looking for some input. I just got the boat and would like to have some fun with it before I start spending money on a complete rebuild (which is on the table this next winter.)

Jim.

Jim ..........

I remember my son having the same problem, but in his case the cylinder walls were scored. A trip to the local outboard salvage yard turned up an excellent complete powerhead for a very reasonable price.

Changing out the powerhead was a lot easier than a teardown, fer sure.

Kind of looking forward to the tear down this next winter. I have rebuilt many Lawnmower,Motor Cycle and Car Engines. This should not be much different. I just do not have the time or money right now.

BTW: Does anyone know where to buy a complete rebuild kit for at J35RCTS (83)???

I have found single parts but no kits........

Before tearing down the motor, run a can of SeaFoam or OMC Engine Tuner through the motor (according to the instructions). These do wonders at removing built-up carbon and improving compression.

Other suggestions are to reset your carburetor idle settings according to the service manual and be sure you are running the correct gas:oil mix.

Trun the motor so the cycs are up and bring the pistons so they are half way up on down. Pull the plugs first and get some Seafoam at NAPA or any Car parts story and pure about 2oz in each cyc and let sit a day or 2 the longer the better. The fallow the drections and mix with your fuel and run a tank or 2 through it. If the rings are going to losen up this will do it. After you have done all this check your compression and see if It has improved.
Hope this helps. This what they recamand on the old outboad motor site
Mike aka pathfinderz1

Thanks Guys!! I am off to get a can of Sea Foam!! and err... Look for a power head... Just in case.

Save your money. They all get carbon build up and need to come apart. Only about 1/2 the pistons I pull out are usable. If the rings are stuck tear it apart and do it right.

Where do you get your rebuild kits?????


sorry if I over posted the Quick reply did not appear to work.

Jim.

If the rings are carbon sticky, then the Seafoam treatment MAY work. If the rings are coked in, then you have other issues in play. Coking occurs when the motor is lugged, .ie over propped. Many folks think that putting a higher pitch prop on their motor will give them more speed. Although this can be the result, more often than not, it results in lugging the motor - akin to driving uphill, towing a trailer, in fifth gear. Motor runs hotter and the result is coking, baked on carbon deposits on the piston. Often gets in the ring lands and jacks the rings into the cylinder wall. Always prop your motor to run at the top end of the recommended RPM range with a light load.

Also, there are complete rebuild kits on eBay... item #290352238505

Wow!!! Thanks that is about half what I found at other vendors. Much appreciated. If the rings do not un-stick I will buy one of those kits.!!!!

The carbon is behind the rings and needs to be removed. No amount of seafoam will do it. I get all my parts from Seaway Marine. You shouldn't need pistons, but you might. Used ones will work fine. check the ring lands very close after cleaning. If you need bearings throw it away, you need a crank. You need gaskets and seals, and rings. Get some OMC assembly lube to hold the bearings in place. You can always call me 952 881 2254 if you have questions, or Skype jerry.gilkeson, or Yahoo IM fiftiesflash.

I been lurking around he all day..(laid up with a sore back for a bit,), and hear a lot about Seafoam, but so far not the Seafoam "Deep Creep" Aerosol can, sold Napa here. Works great for me. Warm the motor, spray and spray and spray, (gonna smoke out the neighbor hood, so don't do it on at the launch, use muffs or barrel). Then soak it until it quits. Tilt up, liberal spray in the jugs, and let sit overnight. Then, plugs back in, fire it, until warm, shut down. Pull and clean the plugs. back in and get it wet, warm it, and put under load. Bring many spare new plugs, bet it fouls at least one. Damn stuff works! My old 88 125 Force/20 footer, would fall off plane about 3000R's. After?..went to more like 2500 R's. Worth a try at $5. Robby

I was working at a Phillips 66 station in '62 while going to trade school. I worked for a guy named Ernie Taylor, who was the master of the oscilloscope and taught me more about making the customer happy than I ever would have learned in school. Anyways, this guy came in with a 53 Oldsmobile that had been run on Quaker State too long and the lifters were rattling so bad you would think they were coming out of the motor. He put a can of Seafome in the oil and let it idle for about an hour, then poured a can down the carb a little at a time till it was almost gone, (the EPA would have yer a$$ in jail today I think) then dumped the rest flooding the motor out. He let it set about 5 minutes and fired it up. You would swear it was a brand new motor. It's a great upper cylinder lube, and will break up carbon on the top of the piston when the motor's running, but it won't fix stuck rings on these things. You can pull the diffusers and look at the piston and rings. If they look clean and free, run it.

JimPBarber wrote:

Hi,

I have a Johnson 35HP, It appears to me that the lower cylinder rings are sticky. There is quite a build up on them. Does anyone have any ideas on how to free them up?

The motor runs but smokes like it is on fire. Now I know 2 strokes smoke a bit, I have a two stroke tiller and owned many 2 stroke Motor Cycles.

Any Ideas on how to free them up without doing an upper end? Just looking for some input. I just got the boat and would like to have some fun with it before I start spending money on a complete rebuild (which is on the table this next winter.)

Jim.

Have you ran a compression check on it? And I'm curious why you say its smoking so bad. You didn't mention the year, and are you running 25, or 50-1 oil. As its a 2 stroke, and it only gets so much oil, and not like a 4 stroke, that can drag extra oil out the C/C. Do a Comp check first, then see if its not going to do more damage playing with over summer, than rather a rebuild now, as those motors are so easy to work on. And those motors are pretty bullet proof, and a rebuild now, will last years, if not decades with proper care. Wish the best with it, and as PNW too, yep, I'm ready for summer too! Robby...

An 83-35HP should be running on 50:1 ---some oils smoke less than others.

---

Too much smoke could be caused by a leaky fuel pump or flooding carburetor.

Well since I just rebuilt the carburetor, I will try a quick fuel pump replacement. What the hell, I will be pretty much rebuild the thing anyway. It cannot hurt anything.

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the input. It gives me options.

Have you removed the bypass cover to inspect pistons / rings.

---

Test the fuel pump before rushing out to buy a new one !!

I replaced the gaskets on the exhaust exchanger, and checked the rings then. The lower rings looked pretty gummy as did the piston but there was no scoring as I could tell. The I tried futzing with the ring and it was sticky. Gummy (brown sticky goop), not carbon locked as far as I could tell.

The upper was a beauty, and the rings were free. Looked brand spanking! I took apart the fuel pump and cleaned everything up. I put it all back together. I reset the idle and futzed around with the throttle and advance and fired it up again.

I ran it for a while and adjusted the fuel mix and idle and got the smoking down to an err..... acceptable level. I still need to fill the cylinder with sea foam or the like to loosen up the lowing rings some more if they are not going to do it by themselves.

I think it may be alright and that it just needs to run a bit. Both of my plugs were fouling and after adjusting the idle mix that has cleared up for the most part on the upper cylinder, not Ideal on the lower yet.

We will see how it goes, I managed to get sick this weekend and cannot work on it right now. Wouldn't you know it the damn sun came out as soon as I got sick!!

Ha, ha on me.

OK you got it running now get a compression check on it. Anything over 80lbs is a runner.
Mike aka pathfinderz1

As noted above, there will be some smoke regardless, particularly if using dino oil. Synths tend to smoke less.

If the rings are just sticky, as you described, then they my benefit from the above treatments with Seafoam Deep Kreep, or similar decarboning products.

What are your compression readings?

So I finally had time to work on things.

My compression was:

Top Cylinder: 100 psi
Bottom Cylinder: 54 psi

So, I bought some seafoam. I started on the bottom cylinder. I turned the engine to TDC then let it drop just a few degrees past TDC.

I filled the cylinder all the way up to the top of the sparkplug threads with seafoam. Then put the plug in. I left it for a week. Ran the engine for until warm. Then repeated it again. I ran the engine again to clear it out.

I got 124 psi while the engine was warm!!!! Hot damn... I went ahead and filled up the top cylinder the same way and left it for a week.

Now I have :

120 psi, top cylinder cold.

118 psi, bottom cylinder cold.

Wooo hooo!!

The only down side is now the engine is harder to turn over because of the increased compression!! Ha...!


I can now focus my attention on the lower end and replacing my water pump and the prop shaft seal!!..


BTW: any advice on getting a prop off the shaft, it is frozen on there solid.

JimPBarber wrote:

BTW: any advice on getting a prop off the shaft, it is frozen on there solid.

Plasma torch. At least that was ultimately what we,Dr.Frankenmerc,had to resort to. One person suggested soaking in salt water for a couple weeks but that was after we torched my stainless prop.

Now you have the prop nut off and the shear pin out? Then soak it like you did the motor for a few days and see what happens
Mike aka pathfinderz1

There is a shear pin??????

Shear pins are present on some models especially older ones. Mine uses variant two with a splined shaft and a rubber bushing that is designed to shear if the prop hits something or becomes tangled etc....

Whew, I thought that I was doing something stupid!!