TOPIC: How much should I pay for a 1964 75 hp. Starflite

I have found what would appear to be the correct vintage motor for my 1964 Evinrude Sport 16 boat. The owner is asking $500, but he says the motor has not been run for 4 years and never by him. He says the motor is clean, turns over, and appears to never have been run in salt water. (I don't know how he would know where a 47 year-old motor has spent it's life )

All I have so far are some pictures of it taken through a chain link fence. It looks to be clean as new. I would really like to have it to match my boat.

What would be a reasonable price? He's asking $500.

C: I would really ask more quetions for that price of $500. . Will the seller demonstrate , or do a compression test for you.??
. On craig list in our town ,always certified mobile marine techs offer to do a evaluate for about $40. iF SELLER not let a pro take a look , seems to be hiding something. IMO. Cant be many buyers of 60's stuff.

As a two-cycle engine, if it has been run many hours, there would be noticeable build-up of gunk. When buying a motor, it's imperative to look it over yourself, take the hood off, make sure it turns over, appears complete and in good condition, and comes with controls, cables, remote-start wiring harness, and transom mounting brackets. All are needed for this motor and would have to be found to make it a complete rig. Also, make sure it will match the transom height (long shaft or short shaft) or your boat. If possible, perform a compression test on the cylinders using an automotive type compression test.

Since you are looking for a 1964 Evinrude to match your boat, the 75 and 90 HP motors of that year are likely the models best suited for your boat (rather than the 60 or 40 HP). I see from the craigslist ad for this motor that it's a model #75493D - that makes it a gray (rather than the blue) 1964 Starflite with the electric shift : tinyurl.com/6jrzeb5

The electric shift of the 90 and 75 HP Starflites are reliable, but are harder to find knowledgeable experts willing to work on them. The 1964 Speedifour has the tried and true manual shift, later improved in 1965 with a ball-detent to ensure proper shifting. Also, carburetor parts are much easier to find for the 75 versus the 90 which had a four-barrel carb that was unique to the 1964 to 1968 90 and 100 HP). Many upgrades can be made to improve the performance of the 75 including reed plates and carburetors from the later 80 and 85 HP models, or even a powerhead from the 100. With a little searching, you can even find the factory-option electric tilt unit.

Check out the Evinrude brochure for 1964 at old-omc.de if you haven't already. If everything checks out and this motor looks to be the motor for you, then go ahead and make a counter-offer and haggle a fair price for both of you. That is entirely appropriate since no information is available regarding the running condition of the motor, even if its the motor you are looking for, appears clean and little used. As the saying goes, "buy the motor, not the story."

Split wrote:

C: I would really ask more quetions for that price of $500. . Will the seller demonstrate , or do a compression test for you.??
. On craig list in our town ,always certified mobile marine techs offer to do a evaluate for about $40. iF SELLER not let a pro take a look , seems to be hiding something. IMO. Cant be many buyers of 60's stuff.

As seems to be usual, time and circumstance are working against me in this instance. The seller has the motor in storage, they are vacating their unit and the motor must be gone by Monday. This doesn't allow time for a checkout by a mechanic. Said checkout would likely cost a substantial portion of the price I negotiated with the seller. Let's just say that I did not pay the full asking price. Until I have it in my hot little hands, anyway.

You'd be surprised who is buying this retro cr . . .er . . .stuff. Us folks that lived through the 60[s (okay, maybe we don't remember everything that happened!) are now reaching the age where disposable income allows us to pick up a few of the things we couldn't afford back then. We were raising our families, wages were still entry-level and we had to eat a lot of macaroni & cheese and hot dogs.

I'm excited about getting an exact match motor for my new boat. As my wife said, "Since you finished building that airplane, you haven't had a reason to get out of bed in the morning. Maybe this will crank you up again. So far, it has.

Seeing as he is moving his stuff - I bet if you have cash in hand you could get the motor for less. Lifting that motor once into your vehicle is alot less work than him moving it and trying to sell later.

Handy Andy .........

What a wonderful posting of advice and information. I am in your debt.

I have purchased the motor sight unseen for an agreeable price. I will pick it up tomorrow (70 mile one-way) and, if something is not as advertised, I'll re-negotiate.

Glad you made a reasonable deal. Folks have traveled at times much farther than that for that "have to have" boat or outboard motor.

Be sure to post photos and ask any questions you may have. We like to help and have a lot of knowledge to share.

Andy ...........

I just returned from the three-hour round trip to purchase and pick up the motor. It's still sitting in the bed of my truck. I think it will be there until I get the old 40 horse Merc off the stern, the old seats and carpet out and the topsides painted. Shouldn't be more than three or four days (Ha!)

Here's what it looks like:





We took the cowl off for inspection then left it off to make the lift into the truck bed easier.



I see it has a nice bail on the top for hoisting.



About a four or five foot long wiring harness came attached to the motor. I'll have to get the rest of the harness and the engine controls. I didn't realize this motor bolted onto the transom rather than the C-clap style I am used to in smaller motors. The motor didn't come with any sort of plate to go on the forward side of the transom. I feel sure you are supposed to use something other than fender washer to distribute the forces. Perhaps it came with a cast Aluminum plate? I'll have to look that up in the parts diagram web link you sent me. Shouldn't be hard to fabricate a replacement from either Aluminum or CRES.(Corrosion REsistant Steel)



I could turn the flywheel about a half-turn before compression stopped me. IMHO, I think it will go. Time will tell. Everything under the hood looks well maintained. Sure, there's some rust here and there and some paint wear, but I had some wear too, when I was 47. Things have gone downhill from there for moi. Perhaps, for this engine, it'll be a second life.

Now to start looking for the rest of the parts!

BTW, I paid $300.

Well, you are going to need the electric shift control box.

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You will need the junction box with the solenoid / diodes / voltage regulator. They may be hard to find depending on where you are.

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Special mounting brackets were used , they bolt to the transom and the motor slides in from the top, locks in with a couple of bolts.

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The brackets should be easy to find at any old time dealer.

The search begins. I am in the Puget Sound area, lots of boating and dealers around here, including one in Seattle who specializes in old parts. Our local marine repair shop has internet access and the capability to search other shop's inventory.

Sea-Way Marine is nationally known for their inventory of vintage Evinrude parts. You're one step ahead if you know of them already. If you can't find any of your needed parts locally, try posting a wanted ad in the Glassifieds section. Some folks around here have a store of '60s V-4 parts that they are willing to part with.

But first things first- you'll need to build a motor stand to hold the motor upright for storage and working on it.

This thread has some other examples of motor stands:
www.fiberglassics.com/fiberglassics-forums/main-forum/motor-stands#15084

This thread has an image of the type of junction box you will need as well as a motor stand:http://www.fiberglassics.com/fiberglassics-forums/j-e-g-o-s-place/removing-a-motor-from-the-boat-2#9667

These are the type of transom brackets you need. They mount on the outside of the transom. I bought this pair of brackets a long while ago for a motor I no longer have. I believe they are for the 58/59 50 HP models(?) but are interchangeable with all the '60s V4s.


Establishing the mechanical condition of the motor should be your first consideration before investing too heavily in controls and other accessories. Any motor with unknown history and destined to be a regular runner should have a compression test, ignition spark test, the carburetor removed and cleaned or rebuilt, fuel pump dissembled and cleaned or rebuilt, rubber hoses replaced, the water pump impeller replaced, and lower unit fluid replaced.

Like I posted in the previous thread, at marineengine.com you can view and print the parts manual for free. A service manual is essential when working on these motors and contains much information. The factory owners, service, or parts manuals for the '64 75 Starflite can be bought new from Ken Cook Co. or located secondhand. Long ago I also posted this aftermarket service manual that might be of use.
archives.fiberglassics.com/forum955/showmessage.asp?fm=Forum&messageID=872


Once you have the motor on the stand, start off with the compression test. Beg/borrow/buy an automotive-type compression tester that threads into the sparkplug holes. Disconnect the spark plug wires and pull-start or jump the starter with a 12 volt battery, getting PSI readings for each cylinder at a time. All should be relatively close. Low numbers indicate piston rings sticking due to carbon build-up or a leaky head gasket. The service manual can help you with most of the other needed check-ups and prevent some serious mistakes (like failing to disconnect the electric shift cables before removing the lower unit).

HandyAndy wrote:

Sounds like you'll need to build a motor stand. . .

Are you reading my mind? This is getting creepy! I think you have done this same thing yourself and talked other guys through the process.

Along with the other things you mentioned (spot on, BTW and thanks for the image, makes this much clearer) I thought about an engine stand but not for the Evinrude as that will be on the boat. I will need some way to store the Mercury I'm removing until it's sold.

When I spoke with my son today, he also mentioned building one. I have a permanent one built on one wall of my garage which now has a 10 hp Merc, a 4 hp Johnson, a 2 hp Johnson and an electric troller. No more room there and it is not located under my chain hoist. I think I need a rollabout.

I was thinking about building one out of lumber and setting it on top of a nice Harbor Freight Tools mover's dolly I have. That way, with four wheels, I would never have to tip a motor to move it. I will certainly look at the design(s) in the thread you mentioned.

The transom of my boat has four holes from some previous installation. They may fit those brackets you show. I measured the spacing of the two threaded holes in the motor and they are 9" or so apart. The two top holes in the transom are 12¾" apart, perhaps a bit less. Does that measurement mesh with the brackets?

It would be great if I don't need to fill those holes and was able to use them. I'll start looking for the missing stuff tomorrow. It's supposed to snow again, so I don't think I'll be working outside. But, I'm hoping to be able to hook up the boat to the motorhome the end of May for our annual trip to Eastern Washington. There'll be Golf (I don't play) and Trout & Bass fishing with a bunch of other retired Seattle Firefighters. I really want to show off a restored Fiberglassic!


Our encampment at Spectacle Lake near Tonasket, WA/


Potluck at the lake.


My son with a string of Rainbows.


My Grandson with his big one. Doesn't he look like Jake on Two and a Half Men? That picture was taken three years ago. Now he's 6' tall and 180 lbs.!!!

If you need them, I have a set of the motor mount brackets available...

I use a heavy duty 3 way rocker switch available at any hardware store. on-off-on + to the center the others go to the wires that go down the leg of the motor you can find them in your wiring harness. You should have a drilling jig for the mounts.

Chinewalker wrote:

If you need them, I have a set of the motor mount brackets available...

Email sent.

50s Flash wrote:

I use a heavy duty 3 way rocker switch available at any hardware store. on-off-on + to the center the others go to the wires that go down the leg of the motor you can find them in your wiring harness. You should have a drilling jig for the mounts.

I'm not sure of what you are saying, here. Excuse my ignorance.

Are you installing this SPDT switch in place of the stock wiring or in addition to it? What are you controlling with the switch, the shifting solenoid?

I purchased and assembled a Harbor Freight Tools engine stand yesterday and today made an adapter plate from plywood, hoisted the engine out of the truck, and mounted it on the stand.

Not really happy with it. Since the point of rotation is below the center of gravity of the engine, it wants to rotate upside down. I'll probably torch cut the vertical arm on the engine stand and extend it 8" or so.

With the engine on the stand, I pulled the plugs and sprayed a bit of penetrating oil to each cylinder. I let it sit a bit then hooked a battery up to the starter and turned the engine over 20 revolutions or so.

Then I hooked up my compression gauge to #1 cylinder and cranked it a half-dozen times without looking at the gauge. Zero. Nada. I cranked it again while watching it and the needle didn't budge.

Oh, Snap! So, I went on to #3. Yeah! 50#. #2 - 65#. #4 60#. Then I went back to #1. 40#! Double yeah! I think this is great for the initial try on an engine sitting in storage for 4 years.

I'll let it sit and try it again when the oil has soaked around the rings.

#1 --- 40#
#2 --- 65#
#3 --- 50#
#4 --- 60#

Try sitting the motor on its side with the cyc's up and get some SeaFoam and squart some into each cyc and let it sit a day or 2 then try comprission again. You might trun it a half turn after a day on flywheel and squart some more seafome.
Mike aka pathfinderz1

Clark
I wish I had known that you were looking for a E-Rude.
Here is a running 1965 Speedifour 75 horse long shaft that I just sold this last weekend. I sold the whole package.
I would have made you a heck of a deal on the motor/controls.
I surely would have kept the hull and trailer and hung one of my old Mercs on it.
Sounds as though you are making progress on your recent purchase.
I hope all goes well and she runs like a top.
Neil

Clark Savage Jr wrote:
Are you installing this SPDT switch in place of the stock wiring or in addition to it? What are you controlling with the switch, the shifting solenoid?[/quote]

Yep it just replaces that bogus push button thing.

Flash ..........

Sounds like something that could be done. I'll keep it in reserve if I can't find all the stock parts.

A friend had a 19' Evinrude I'o with these controls and I had a real hard time getting used to them (I never did). My 19' Johnson I/O had a much simpler system - push forward, go forward. Pull back, go back.

Neil ........

I didn't know myself until Sunday afternoon, when I picked up this motor and it was missing a few exterior parts. Thanks for the thought. It looks like there's enough spare parts around that I can put together the whole package.

As you can probably tell, I'm really pumped about this new project. I really needed something like this to put some zing in an otherwise drab Winter.

Mike .........

I've heard a lot of good things about Seafoam on the Suzuki Intruder forum. Might be a good product to try. Do you happen to know the ingredients? Marvel Mystery Oil has always been one of my favorites.

When the 64 -75 HP is in gear there is a constant 12 volts drawn by the electro-magnets in the lower unit ( not solenoids )

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The charging system ( under the flywheel and in the junction box ) must complete and in good shape !!!!!

Electromagnet = solenoid. A rose by any other name . . .
The reason I asked the question about the alternator is because, as I was working on the engine stand today, I looked up at the crankcase and saw what appeared to be an empty mounting spot for either an alternator or other belt-driven device. Kind of like an empty starter mounting hole.

Realizing shortly after Andy sent me the wiring diagram that the charging system must be incorporated directly off the crankshaft like a motorcycle's, I wish I had waited to ask the question.

When we were racing TT and flat track many years ago, we would disconnect the charging system to wring that teeny bit of extra hp from the engine. Our ignition was by magneto and we didn't need a battery or charger to keep running.

Even if we did, a battery might last long enough until we could charge it again. In the boat, if all we needed was starting current, the alternator might not be necessary. But, as you say, the constant draw from the shift circuit would certainly drain a battery.

Thanks, Prof.

The casting for the block is " common "

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And that spot was used for a belt driven generator ( optional ) on the manual start magneto fired models.

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Electric shift is wonderfully simple and reliable

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Many are ruined by operator " error "

hi clark,its nice to meet you,im the one with a 63 starflight/blue selectric shift,in handy andys link,on removing a motor,
i also built a stand using a harbor frieght dolly,20 bucks,and it works great,you can see part of it in the pic in the link.
here is a better pic of it and the fold up tables i made in my garage,they all come in handy.john

Damn, I'm in Olympia, and a few years back picked for free I think 85HP. Froze up, salted out. Yes, you need what Scott (Chinewaker) has, those are the mounts. And I had a set controls, but ebayed off, and the E/S lower unit went to SoCal. Remember the lower unit uses light "Type C" OMC oil. Use NO other. Check for water intrusion L/U too. Seems the rest covered here, and if I duplicated any, sorry, kinda read over fast..wish the best with it. Still damn good looking motors. I think I have a prop nut, washer, etc..(forgot, here somewhere). If ya need it, lemeno..Robby

Clark Savage Jr wrote:

Mike .........

I've heard a lot of good things about Seafoam on the Suzuki Intruder forum. Might be a good product to try. Do you happen to know the ingredients? Marvel Mystery Oil has always been one of my favorites.

I had the MSDS sheet somewhere, but Seafoam is basic 40% Naphtha (same as VMP,Painters Naphtha, sold Home Depot), 30% light oil, (think correct on percentages), and 30% Pharmaceutical grade Isopropyl, not the 70 or even 90% Rubbing alcohol. I mixed my own using Marvel for the oil, but all told, its almost the same price as Seafoam at Wally wonderland. But if ya oiling up the cyls/rings, use PB Blaster, then pour in some Marvel. Sit, crank it out, try a Comp read again. always works for me. Robby (PS..Seafoam, and the Deep Creep Seafoam, work under heat and combustion pressure. Straight out the can on a carboned up say plug, will do nothing)

I'm going to lay the motor on the garage floor today with the cylinders up and try the Seafoam soak. Scott sent me the transom brackets, I bought a throttle/shift control/wiring harness on eBay, and I'm still looking for the junction box with the solenoid, rectifier and voltage regulator.

If push comes to shove, I could build one, I suppose, but the connectors might be impossible to locate.

Anybody have one?? Even pictures might help. I have the wiring schematic.