TOPIC: Poppin' the cap

Starting to clean up this 57 year old RDS-20. Having a heck of a time getting the top to "ping". Right now I've got lots of tension on it and sprayed it completely with PB Blaster to let it soak. Seems I've done hundreds of these things but this one is a b--ch.
While waiting for magic to happen I managed to strip the entire, almost motor apart but so far nothing broke loose. I'll let it sit over night and see what happens in the morning. In the meantime anyone have a special secret? I've given it the hard raps on the puller, gently tapped all around the flywheel to vibrate. Hate to use heat.

might try a panel cutter/air hammer with low air pressure....use a piece of 1/4 or so steel stock between the flywheel and tool so you are just using it for vibration john

i use a different puller with much shorter bolts... never seen one i couldnt get off... let it sit over night.. give it a rap in the morning and tighten up on the puller..

Make sure those puller bolts are Grade 8 or better, anything less is gonna break or pull out of the flywheel threads.

I've had success with reluctant JohnRude flywheels in the past by careful use of an impact wrench. Not much worse on the bearings than rapping on the puller with a hammer, I'd expect.

You can put a lot of tension on it, then hit it with some penetrant and let it soak overnight.

If all that doesn't get it to pop, you're gonna have to use heat. Make sure you have a propane torch with a good flame, or use a MAPP torch etc.

Sometimes there's no other way to get 'em pulled without using extreme methods. Seems like the worst ones I've had to pull are the Big Twins, don't know why but there it is. Most of the Mercs just pop right off, go figure!

HTH & G'luck........ed

Thanks for the ideas. I guess patience is the key here. I'll just let it soak maybe for a few days if necessary. Last thing to do is strip out the threads, did that once and had to re-tap the top

BRP/OMC has a great puller that comes with hardened bolts of various sizes & lengths. (Both metric & SAE). Works on all sorts of engines. I found it great on Arctic Cat Suzuki built engines. Part number is 378103. Expect to pat about $80

I think you do need a different puller. If you do decide to try heat, a trick used by vintage car folks is to heat the shaft area, then apply a stick of paraffin wax (or a candle) to the seam. if it's hot enough you will see the wax get pulled into the seam sorta like sweat solder on a copper pipe. That's worked for me a couple times.

Thanks Norm, I'll try that Monday. If it doesn't loosen up then I'm thinking heat the wheel and put dry ice on the shaft, that is old school too. Gotta have patience with these old girls.

This is something else I found on the web. Copy and pasted I think it was on marineengine.com.

How to Remove Stuck Nuts and Bolts
Stuck fasteners are a constant source of frustration for do-it-yourselfers.

On marine engines and outboard and stern drive lower units the problem is compounded because corrosion is accelerated by damp, salty air. When a nut or bolt won't budge, don't lose your temper. Instead, heat it, or freeze it.


If you work on a boat you already know nuts and bolts freeze with frustrating frequency. Sometimes it's a carbon steel bolt corroded solid on a cylinder head. Other times it's a stainless steel bolt frozen solid in an aluminum lower unit. The only way to break it loose is with patience, bloody patience. Count to ten. Swallow the frustration. Then, one by one, follow the timeworn remedies revealed below that have been passed on from the dawning of the Iron Age.

Don't make the mistake of trying to free a stuck bolt with brute force, especially one stuck in aluminum housing. Otherwise it may snap off further complicating matters. It's a better strategy to walk away form a job for a day or two than risk making the situation worse. Besides, it's almost karmic the way coming back to a job after even a short break seems to make things go more smoothly.

Usually a couple of minutes of flame from a propane torch is sufficient. This method works because heat expands the metal, breaking its threads loose from the rust that's locked it in place.

Know that sometimes the flame blossoming from the common propane torch may hold enough BTUs to get the job done. Either way, oxy or propane, heat the bolt. No need to go red-hot, but hot enough so droplets of water flicked onto the bolt sizzle off into a vapor.

Let the bolt cool completely. On a hot summer day that may mean a wait of at least an hour. It isn't the heat that breaks the fastener loose. But rather the repeated expanding and contracting of the hot and cold cycles that breaks corrosion's grip on the threads. One, twice, even three applications of heat may be required. Like we said in the beginning, patience is a virtue. It also helps to tap-tap-tap the stuck bolt with a ball pein hammer. The vibration loosens the rust. And you should also know the rust along the shank resists removal more than the rust on the threads. Keep that in mind when heating a stuck bolt.

An alternative to fire is ice. Some mechanics claim dry ice will shrink a bolt enough to break corrosion's hold. Though most of us choose a torch because it's quicker if not more dramatic. Besides dry ice, there is another cool option. It is an aerosol spray that freezes metal ice cold, more particularly a blast of freeze spray, an aerosol that super chills metal parts to minus 72 degrees Fahrenheit. Deep freezing contracts the fastener, breaking the tension between the threads and the rust. This time the strategy is to wait for it to warm up before giving it another blast of cold air. In extreme cases, alternately heating and freezing will do the trick.

Try flipping your pulling tool over. You want the bolt heads and washers resting on the flat side of it. A couple of your bolts look like they aren't in the flywheel straight. You can also stick a bar, of some sort, through the bolts to keep the flywheel from turning as you tighten up your puller. And make sure the flywheel nut is still on there so the flywheel doesn't shoot across the garage when it finally pops.

Yup, I used my puller the the wrong way for a long time, until, totally by accident, I realized my mistake. Allows for shorter bolt use also and seemed to work better. I had one on a '69 johnson 40 that took about 4-5 days to get off. Every day I'd go in, make sure puller was tight, and give it a couple of raps. The day it was loose, I thought at first the puller broke...lol :-

That's exactly what I am doing. Going to reverse the puller. Now that it's mentioned it seems pretty obvious but then again it takes longer to get something into a thick head...says the admiral.
I'm sorta hoping when I look at it today it will be loose but at least now I have a few more options.
Thanks
Cal

Well, it pays to take your time, lot's of good advice here.

Here's the results of a previous owners attempt.

Cheers

Bill

WOW now thats a bad attempt at removing a flywheel right there...

Yowza!! That's a whole lot of bad!

Bill, Gee, someone's ears had to be ringing when that happened
I'm going to print that picture and tape it on the wheel so I can see it every time temptation rolls around.

I did reverse the puller and got it closer to the wheel. Not putting so much pressure on it to break, HOPE.

Did the wax and heat thing and just praying that every morning when I check it out some magic has happened. Keep putting the PB Blaster on it. Sooner or later it will give.

There is one other option to throw at it...

63 Sabre wrote:

I'm going to print that picture and tape it on the wheel so I can see it every time temptation rolls around.

I love that idea!

sometimes i find that freeze-off works better than pb blaster...its available in most parts stores..

Vintage, there is an AutoZone about 2 miles from me, I'll try the freeze-off. Watched their YouTube video and it just might do the trick. I'm thinking a few drops of muriatic acid might bust up the corrosion also.
Thanks for the tip. I'll let you know tomorrow what the results are.

For what it is worth, and I'm pretty sure I saw it posted on here a while back, someone did a test of various penetrants - pb blaster, kroil, etc, against a 50-50 mix of tranny fluid and acetone, and the mix waaayy outperformed the others. I had been a devotee to both of the above (esp kroil) until then, but my own totally unscientific experiments afterwards confirmed the findings.

Been awhile and still not coming loose. Tried the freeze stuff, no results. Snapped a regular grade bolt, purchased new grade 8's. Going to soak it in tranny fluid today and let it sit for a few more days.
If I put my torque wrench on it, how many ft. lbs. could that cap handle before damage is done??

About using a torque wrench...works good to know if you made any progress. I started with 60 ft. lbs., 6 hours later I re-torqued 'cus it went to 50. Brought it back up to 65 and now it sits again overnight.

OK, lets do this. Make some wood wedge's and pound the in a solid piece the block under the FW. Then "freeze the shaft" Freeze off is just canned air same sold as ""dust off" puter cleaner, just turn the can upside down and same effect. Then think ya need a "red and green" wrench on the FW. Then heat the outside in to the middle. Do the torque, and keep pressure taps the wedges, repeat until comes loose. Rap it for a shock with a dead blow. Try it!

HUH??


I've got lotsa time for this one to work itself out. The motor sits while I rebuild a hull and trailer.

Let's see now, I did the regular shaft pulling, penetrating stuff, direct torch heat, freezing cold, more/different penetrating stuff, more torque, kitchen sink. what I haven't done yet is actually put some straps under the FW and hang the engine from the rafters, maybe put a few pillows under it to cushion the fall.
Hate doing the wedge thing, see picture a few posts back

Have you tried whacking the puller with a hammer as you turn it?

It's easier with two guys, but here's a tip. The guy swinging the hammer needs good aim, the guy with his hands on the puller & wrench needs big stones.

Temping as it may be, hands off the sledge hammer & crow bar! We've seen the results of that.

Good luck

Cheers

Bill

I was hesitant to post the wood wedge method for fear of results like Bill's pic. I have done this as a last resort but go gently wedges can produce tons of force.

Before you go that route try removing the puller, torque the flywheel nut to proper spec, place a impact socket over the nut and tap many times with a small ball pein hammer. Some blues, classic rock, or music of your choice can help with this step. LOL

Now replace the puller and tap the center bolt. You may need to repeat these steps several times so more patients!

I like PB Blaster but PBR and music works for me. LOL

Good luck, Gene

63 Sabre wrote:

HUH??

OK, I'll "splain" more that post. Been a Mech/Machinist all my life and seen it all. On "Freeze Off"? Its same as flipping puter "air" upside down as it now Carbon Dioxide straight out freezing in air instead a "propellent" for "air" Probably same price so don't matter.
But on the wood wedges? Ya need how to understand just how to pop anything with a taper. You don't get a BFH and slam it in all ham fisted. Just some outside pressure the FW. THINK HERE! Upward pressure SIDES as you are shocking a TAPER shaft. Then get a proper puller that pulls straight up. Crank the puller down a pointed tip on the crank shaft and SLOWLY start to tighten up the puller, tap the wedges, back to the puller. Get as tight as ya can..(no impact involved here, just lock the FW, and hand do it.). Then sit and have a beer, or ZIP wrong "listening the Blues!" (Yep, me too!)

One more time before ya crash do it all again tight then have too SHOCK IT the center puller bolt with a ..I have a 8 inch handle 4 LB sledge just for that purpose. Remember you are ONLY breaking lose a TAPER SHAFT! Thats "not pull, but SHOCK OFF!"

Repeat above as needed, with time between, and hope ya get some day/nite/..POP! Think and have patience. If not comes off? Might have a spun FW, and the key has cut grooves and locked /galled for good.

TAH DAAAHHHHH!

Robby and friends. Appreciate all the help and sound advice. Didn't have to pound or wedge. 85 ft lbs on the torque and WHAMMM! (no ping)

Good thing you guys said to put the nut back on otherwise there would have been a ufo sailing around my garage.
You can see all the crud 'n stuff on the shaft, the key seems pretty well flattened out also.

Now to pop the tops on a few or more cold ones.

Well THATS good to know!

WooHoo, congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob