Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
Got a question about an other outboard? Scott, Ward and others are discussed here!
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: Fuel pulse driven Scott tach on a 65 McCulloch 75

Fuel pulse driven Scott tach on a 65 McCulloch 75 5 months 2 weeks ago #140847

I have been trying to find information about a pulse-driven tachometer, and came across the old post linked below.

I have the same tach with intact, original wiring. All of the tach sending wires terminate at the (in my case) 1965 McCulloch 75hp... but not at all where you'd expect! The signal is NOT coming from the alternator or rectifier. There is a small plastic switch (transducer) enclosure of some sort that mounts to one of the the starter mount bolts and is fed by a short length of fuel line teed off the fuel pump. It is my guess, that this tach somehow converts fuel pump pulses to RPM. I have been Google'ing the topic of fuel-pulse-driven tachometers, and haven't found anything other than this very old post.

The fule line that drives this " transducer" is teed off of either the #1 or #2 pressure line. I'll update with photo soon.

Below is the post that shows the tach:
www.fiberglassics.com/media/kunena/attachments/legacy/images/DSC05894_800x600.jpg

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Fuel pulse driven Scott tach on a 65 McCulloch 75 5 months 2 weeks ago #140852

I took the sender apart - the harness sends the following to the tach: blue = gnd, brown = common, red = normally closed, orange = normally open. the 3 cylinder motor has 2 pressure lines that go to the fuel pump, and the diaaphragm in this sender is attached to one of the fuel pressure lines. Apparently, the pulse that drives the fuel pump makes/breaks the contact for each pulse, and both the make and break are read by the tachometer. Now to find a new diaphragm with an actuator - looks a bit like an accelerator pump on an automotive carburetor.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Fuel pulse driven Scott tach on a 65 McCulloch 75 5 months 2 weeks ago #140853

Here is the sender that converts fuel pulses into tach signals for the Scott tachometer with black, blue, brown, red, orange wires.
blue is ground, brown/red/orange establish the pulses, and other wires into the tach are likely for ignition +12v and backlighting. Diaphragm looks very close to a Holley accelerator pump from a standard auto carb...
Attachments:

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Fuel pulse driven Scott tach on a 65 McCulloch 75 5 months 2 weeks ago #140854

  • 63 Sabre
  • 63 Sabre's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Contributing Member
  • Contributing Member
  • Posts: 4257
  • Karma: 147
  • Thank you received: 117
I think Del might have some info on these, he has a twin Scott setup on one of his boats. Don't know how to contact him though. Some on this site might know. Probably Billan.
Attachments:
The following user(s) said Thank You: DMSDMS65

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Fuel pulse driven Scott tach on a 65 McCulloch 75 5 months 2 weeks ago #140876

First, a caveat. I have never seen a pulse tach system on a Scott motor, but I knew they existed.
You need to check the tubing from the transducer. As I understand the system from the owners manual, it runs off of crankcase pulses, not the fuel pump, at least the liquid gasoline side. The fuel pump also runs on crankcase pulsing so I think the transducer is tapped in on the crankcase side of the fuel pump, not the gasoline side. The fuel pump pulsing would be irregular depending on RPM and load on the engine.
The wiring diagram above of the electrical tach should help you sort out your system a little easier.
Now a little history.
It appears there were three types of tachometers used by Scott outboards.
An all electric tach used from before 1957 to at least 1961. This tach used an extra set of points in the distributor to operate the tach. There is some info available including a wiring diagram I attached that might be useful.
A self contained tach that used rechargeable batteries for power. This was used for small outboards without battery/generating systems. Service Bulletin #338 covers replacing defective batteries.
The pulse tach used in your motor. The only mention I found of it is in the 1965 Owner’s Manual. I have attached that page.
I went through the 1962 to 1965 Parts manuals, the 1962 to 1966 Factory Service , manuals the 1961 through 1966 service bulletins (about 200 pages) with little luck.
I may have missed it, or it may be some document that I don’t have.
My suggestion would be to contact Discount Marine or Laing’s for parts
www.discount-marine-parts.com › ob_scott_atwater




www.google.com/search?q=laings+outboards&rlz=1C1CHBD_en&oq=Laings+Outboards&aqs=chrome.0.0l3.32597j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Discount is the most likely to have the pulse assembly if they can find a parts number for it. I will continue to look for info on that tach.
Sorry about the attachments. Not too clear and inverted. Operator error.
Don
Attachments:
The following user(s) said Thank You: DMSDMS65

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Fuel pulse driven Scott tach on a 65 McCulloch 75 5 months 2 weeks ago #140889

Wow! That is more than I could have imagined! I have parts diagrams, and even the old outboard motor service manual reprint, but I have never seen anything like what you provided. I am more than curious about an owners manual, as I have never seen one reprinted or offered for sale.

I should have clarified that there are 2 pulse lines from the crankcase that power the fuel pump (4 lines in all). The transducer is powered by one of the crankcase lines to the pump. The pressure pulse actuates a diaphragm which looks exactly like an automobile accelerator pump, but with a removable plastic plunger (so as not to beat up the contacts). The plunger extends into a switch enclosure, moving a brass reed off of the normally closed (pink) and onto the normally open (orange) when there is positive pressure. Id does nothing but maintain NC and NO under vaccuum or no pressure. I am a bit baffled why the tachometer would want both the BREAK and the MAKE, since I would think they happen only in pairs.... Almost makes me think the tach considers the amount of time between Break and Make, since it takes little pressure to Break and more to Make.... I was able to find a diaphragm that was close enough to work, since the plunger is a removable, 2-piece part that can be re-used with a new diaphragm.

So that I could corroborate the RPM, I setup a bolt with a wire arm on one of the flywheel puller holes, then mounted an arm with a bicycle bell that would get struck with each pass. I recorded at the bell while cranking the starter for about 5 seconds, and measuring the Hz from the stator with my Fluke. The 12-pole stator read 40Hz, 2400 RPM, and the filtered audio file of the bell allowed me to measure approx 600 RPM, which can be resolved if the stator multiplier is 4.

I'll have to get nearer to water to see what the Tach reads now with the new diaphragm, or build some type of transistor switch to send known freq. pulses to the tach wires.

Thank you for finding this post and sharing the build knowledge that I never knew! May I contact you about some of the documentation materials you have?

Davids in Minneapolis, 1965 longshaft McCulloch 75HP on a 1965 Lonestar Mustang
Attachments:

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Fuel pulse driven Scott tach on a 65 McCulloch 75 5 months 1 week ago #140932

David(S)

If you can give me the serial number of your motor I can be more specific as to what manuals you need. I am pretty busy right now with getting the shop etc. ready for winter.
I live just South of Minneapolis in Lakeville MN. We can get together a little later after things settle down for me.

Don

If any moderators see this could you move this thread to the JEGO forum. Thanks.
The following user(s) said Thank You: DMSDMS65

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Fuel pulse driven Scott tach on a 65 McCulloch 75 5 months 1 day ago #140996

Would be great to get together! Serial number is 65307541 - 1549 (Electric Start, Long Shaft).

I the meantime, I've noticed: there is a pressure valve (used on pool heaters!) that essentially uses about 2lbs of air pressure to drive a standard honeywell microswitch. Those can be gotten with SPDT contacts, which would mean that the fuel pulse pressure signal would break the NC contact and then make the NO contact... just like the original transducer does. From the limited repair manual I have, the tachometers that were distributor driven, were adjusted (more or less) ONLY so that the distributor lobe ensured the NC contact would break completely, and that the stop would prevent the NO contact from bending/distorting at the highest point of the lobe. Still not 100% clear on whether the TIME between break-make plays any part in determining RPM, or if the tach is just counting the frequency of make/break. The pressure switch assy. is shown in the attachment.
Attachments:

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Fuel pulse driven Scott tach on a 65 McCulloch 75 4 months 3 weeks ago #141070

I don’t think you are running on gasoline pressure, but crankcase pressure. One of those hoses goes back to the crankcase and every time a piston comes down a pressure pulse is sent to the fuel pump to pump fuel. There are two sides to the fuel pump, fuel pressure and crankcase pressure. You may get it to work, but do not get the cc pressure system mixed up with the fuel pressure side or the engine “run away” because you are bypassing the carb.
The link you attached only brings up a pic of the tach head.
These are the terminals on the back of the electronic tach headi
1. Pink goes to the center terminal.
2. Blue goes to the terminal to the right (as you face the back of the tach) of pink.
3. Orange goes to the right of blue.
4. Black goes to the left of pink.
5. Brown goes to the left of black.
If your tach head does not have all of these terminals we can assume the pulse system is different from the electronic system.
If you have problems with the pressure system one option is to convert to the electronic system. I believe between Del and myself we can come up with an electronic system.
Now, about the NC/NO point set wiring. Two things enter into the discussion. The first is that the electronic tach was developed by Scott in the late fifties so the electronics are pretty archaic and low tech from the latest stuff.
The other is the fact that a two stroke engine fires every revolution, coupled with archaic electronics may require a shutdown signal. I don’t really know why they used both sides of the points, but they do, so a single contact point set is not going to work with this system. I believe you could use an older 6 cylinder automotive four stroke tach and run it off the single point set because the tach would be looking for three pulses per revolution and that is what it would see. I’ve used six cylinder auto tachs on Merc dockbusters because they have six cylinders and two complete ignition systems, each one feeding three cylinders.
I see a number of potential problems with the system. Why don’t you give a call and we can go over some things.
You can reach me at ninefivetwo fourfourzero fourzerosixsix

Don
The following user(s) said Thank You: DMSDMS65

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Fuel pulse driven Scott tach on a 65 McCulloch 75 4 months 3 weeks ago #141074

I keep saying fuel pulse, but yes, the correct term is crankcase pressure pulse - it is tee'd off of 1 of the 2 crankcase pressure lines that drive the fuel pump, not the gas tank line, not the fuel line to the carbs. Yes, my tach uses the same wiring harness / connections/ colors as the ones with the distributor take off. Look forward to meeting and discussing this old motor I've become happily obsessed with.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
Time to create page: 0.177 seconds

FG Login

Donate

Please consider supporting our efforts.

Glassified Ads

1957 Cambridge
( / Boats)

1957 Cambridge
02-05-2020

1972 CRESTLINER DEEP V 16
( / Boats)

1972 CRESTLINER DEEP V 16
02-04-2020

Wanted: 1957-60 Skagit Fly Bridge Windshield Frame
( / Wanted)

Wanted: 1957-60 Skagit Fly Bridge Windshield Frame
02-03-2020

FiberGoogle

Quick Search

Who's Online

We have 2999 guests and 6 members online