TOPIC: looking for opinions

matt wrote:

where was this located at? I found one up near Lombard that he wanted 350 for... was selling boat and trailer no titles though...
Was it a LoPro or 16SS ?

I found a guy (d. porter ??) about an hour from me, has a 16' LoPro needs floor and transom, and had back 2 back bucket...but really like the windshield look !

I think it was a 16ss, has a nice windshield on it. Prolly the same boat, I think he had been asking $350. Offered it to me for $100 but I already had a driveway full. Didnt have a trailer or boat title but boat title is simple... either do the Il crap or just register it in wi then Il title (can walk you thru it). Trailer title is a problem with new Il laws but, if you have another boat trailer thats titled you can just swap plates (what I do to keep from having $1000 in reg each year). It was a solid boat... definatly needed a transom but had a new floor. Front buckets were good captain chairs. No rear seats. Kind of regret not getting it and putting my 115 on it.

Jim, yes i worked at Thompson boat Co in St Charles Mi along with many other employees at the old Browning facility , and no it was not a dealership ! Jim , yes it is posible that the boat's were being built at both locations considering we had the molds to build just about everything with new tooling underway . Hey guy , that was well over forty years ago , and to tell you the truth you were worked liked a dog ,underpaid ,no benfits , treated like dirt , and towards the end of May you were expected (mandatory) to work 12 hours a day with the exception of Sat which was only 8 hours , and when the boats went out the door , and loaded on the truck / boat hauler they had the Thompson logo on the side , and a serial number on the transom . Jim , not to be rude but i could really care less where this is going just because it was so many Y..E..A..R..S.... ago. Matt , i apologize ,and had no idea that this was going to take such a wrong turn , and once again please except my apology .

I do enjoy a good ddebate, and feel for the most part it was lept clean.

Its a good source of info either way.

jetboat wrote:

matt wrote:

where was this located at? I found one up near Lombard that he wanted 350 for... was selling boat and trailer no titles though...
Was it a LoPro or 16SS ?

I found a guy (d. porter ??) about an hour from me, has a 16' LoPro needs floor and transom, and had back 2 back bucket...but really like the windshield look !

I think it was a 16ss, has a nice windshield on it. Prolly the same boat, I think he had been asking $350. Offered it to me for $100 but I already had a driveway full. Didnt have a trailer or boat title but boat title is simple... either do the Il crap or just register it in wi then Il title (can walk you thru it). Trailer title is a problem with new Il laws but, if you have another boat trailer thats titled you can just swap plates (what I do to keep from having $1000 in reg each year). It was a solid boat... definatly needed a transom but had a new floor. Front buckets were good captain chairs. No rear seats. Kind of regret not getting it and putting my 115 on it.

I called on it...sounded too shady for me...to jump.

if its the same guy (off yackly in Lombard I want to say) then he does sound shady on the phone. He used to buy boats and flip them but his wife said no more. Since I took the motor off the sidewinder he is kind of stuck with a hull he cant sell.

OFFSHORE GINGER wrote:

Jim, yes i worked at Thompson boat Co in St Charles Mi along with many other employees at the old Browning facility , and no it was not a dealership ! Jim , yes it is posible that the boat's were being built at both locations considering we had the molds to build just about everything with new tooling underway . Hey guy , that was well over forty years ago , and to tell you the truth you were worked liked a dog ,underpaid ,no benfits , treated like dirt , and towards the end of May you were expected (mandatory) to work 12 hours a day with the exception of Sat which was only 8 hours , and when the boats went out the door , and loaded on the truck / boat hauler they had the Thompson logo on the side , and a serial number on the transom . Jim , not to be rude but i could really care less where this is going just because it was so many Y..E..A..R..S.... ago. Matt , i apologize ,and had no idea that this was going to take such a wrong turn , and once again please except my apology .

This may shed some new light on the final days of Thompson Boats.

I had a pal in high school (graduated in 1978) whos family bought a new big blue & white Browning (Aerocraft, Aerostar???) tri hull. Must have been a '78 because it had an OMC V8 I/O with the 800 thru hub exhaust. I remember the boat well, it was fast & plush. They had a MerCruiser 165 6 cyl in their previous boat & had nothing but problems. That is why they opted for the OMC.

When exactly did Browning stop production?
Could both lines have been made side by side for a period of time?
Did the Andersons have anything to do with Browning?

Anyone have info???

Jim

Andreas & Jim once again , and not to be rude but..................why do you persist in Hi Jacking Matt's thread and do you think that your topic is a little off track.......considering the man is looking for opinion's on weather to purchase a HydroStream or a Sidewinder .

Hi Jim,

The Anderson brothers had nothing to do with Browning AeroCraft. They had a boat dealership called Anderson Marine & Sportland at Flat Rock, MI. They were a Thompson dealer and I suppose sold other boat brands plus motors, etc.... They were one of the top dealers if not the top dealer for Thompson in 1979.

Thompson Boat, Inc. and its wholly owned subsidiary Sidewinder of Wisconsin, Inc., both of Peshtigo, WI, filed chapter XI bankruptcy on 10 March 1980. Donelan & Phelps of St. Louis, MO owned these companies. They were an investment brokerage firm to whom Saul Padek sold the boat firms in late 1978. Saul Padek's daughter Cynthia was employed by Donelan & Phelps.

Thompson operated as a debtor in possesion. In late June 1980 the Andersons made an offer for the assets to the bankruptcy court. This offer was approved by bankruptcy judge Ihlenfeldt on 02 July 1980 and the sale for $461,000.00 was finalized on 01 August 1980. First Wisocnsin Financial was a Thompson creditor and was owed $1.9 million. The $461,000 went to First Wisconsin Financial. Other debtors were out of luck.

The Andersons attempted to obtain a favorable lease for the Thompson factory facility at Peshtigo (which was NOT owned by the boat company). The buildings and land were owned by the Peshtigo Industrial Development Corporation but leased personally to Saul Padek. So, the Andersons needed to find a location for their newly purchased molds and tooling, etc....

In 1969 Harwill, Inc. makers of AeroCraft boats at St. Charles, MI was sold to Browning Arms Company. In August 1974 Browning sold the boat operation to Fuqua Industries of Atlanta. They continued to use the "Browning AeroCraft" name. Fuqua also owned Signa of Decatur, IN (Vic Porter's firm). In 1978 Signa/Fuqua closed the boat plant at St. Charles, MI and moved operations to Decatur, IN.

In January 1979 local citizens formed St. Charles Boatworks,Inc. with the intent of getting the boat plant back up and running. It was a failed attempt and abandoned very quickly.

In the meantime, Thompson assets were purchased by the Anderson brothers in mid 1980 and they needed factory space. The plant at St. Charles had been empty for over a year. The Andersons learned about this empty facility and negotiated a lease. In late August 1980 all Thompson molds and tooling and equipment was moved from Peshtigo to St. Charles. Two or three former Peshtigo employees made the move to St. Charles.

Thompson and Browning AeroCraft boats were never made side-by-side. I do not know if Fuqua/Signa continued to make "Browning AeroCraft" boats after the operation was moved to Decatur, IN.

Dale and David Anderson slowly rebuilt Thompson Boat. They also opened at least two more "Anderson" boat dealerships in the greater Detroit area. Thompson sales grew from about $1 million their first year in business to about $50 million by the late 1980s.

All sorts of stuff went on in the early 1990s and Thompson declared chapter XI bankruptcy in 1993. Later that year Anthony Barclay came in and made a low ball offer to the bankrupcty court for Thompson assets, which was accepted. He got 'em back in operation but basically shut things down circa 1998. They continued in business making a handful of boats annually for a few more years mainly because Thompson was part of a class action lawsuit against Brunswick (MerCruiser). 2002 was the final liquidation auction at St. Charles.

Andreas

Yeah? I was trying to compare Hydrostream to Sidewinders....
I really don't care if they file bankruptcy 2-3 times through out their boat making lives.

I wanted to know more about quality over the 2 regarding how they were built and well how well they will last, and handle with a little HP behind them.


I do enjoy reading some history on Thompson....

Amazing enough meeting people who have worked for these manufactures is pretty neat too.

Heres something to keep in mind... They still make Sidewinders of the original design. They dont make original Hydrostreams anymore.

Just a little worm to stick in your ear.

heres another option for you...

chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/boa/2583569067.html

Now that hustler is something a bit different....wonder if it could handle 150hp? .....

Matt , that is a pretty pricy option for that boat ,and down the road it just might have the same problems as an older Hydro , and with that in mind .....even after a recore , stringers , knees , transom .....you will at least know where you stand .......which is ...............a boat that pretty much will be new , and stand the test of time when you are ready to pass it on to your Kids .

OFFSHORE GINGER wrote:

Andreas & Jim once again , and not to be rude but..................why do you persist in Hi Jacking Matt's thread and do you think that your topic is a little off track.......considering the man is looking for opinion's on weather to purchase a HydroStream or a Sidewinder .

I had & still have no intension of hi jackings Matt's topic. I simply jumped in to express my opinion you were out of line to AJ. You responded quite politely and perhaps a new thread to continue the Thompson subject would have been more appropriate.

As for Matt's question regarding the boats, if he is only interested in those 2 brands (I don't think so, I feel he is looking for a style of boat) then even the Hustler should not be talked about. I however brought Switzer into the mix as it would also fit the style & be in larger supply in northern Illinois.

BTW, I have met both Matt & AJ in person in the past, we are not absolute strangers to each other.

matt wrote:

Yeah? I was trying to compare Hydrostream to Sidewinders....
I really don't care if they file bankruptcy 2-3 times through out their boat making lives.

I wanted to know more about quality over the 2 regarding how they were built and well how well they will last, and handle with a little HP behind them.


I do enjoy reading some history on Thompson....

Amazing enough meeting people who have worked for these manufactures is pretty neat too.

Fair enough except for one thing to consider any time any builder files bankruptcy, is bought out or moves a significant distance...

When you are buying a hand built product, experience on the manufacturing floor is important. The molds can used during and after a bankruptcy or buyout by the same skilled workers BUT if management pulls the quality down with materials or procedures to save money, the product quality may suffer and the buyer of the product may loose. Moving the facilities a significant distance tends to leave the experienced, skilled workers unemployed in the last city. New and potentially unexperienced workers take time come up to speed. Again quality may suffer.

So, Hydrostreams were all built in MN and most likely never had a complete turnover of the work force.

Sidewinder moved twice(?). Were they just moving the molds? Did they move materials (as in suppliers) with? Did they move procedures with? Perhaps the suppliers used in Peshtigo were as good or better than the MO ones. Perhaps procedures were as good or better, I don't know. It may be possible that Sidewinders built in one location turned out to be significantly better than another, I don't know.

Jim

[/qoute]BTW, I have met both Matt & AJ in person in the past, we are not absolute strangers to each other.[/quote]

Wish I would have had time to run up to your shop while I was up in Wisconsin this year.

thanks

Also I have been drooling over the Hydrostream (viper) and Sidewinder 16SS .. why not sure .. think it because I was so hooked on the Glastron 150, rode in one and well even thou they are an awesome styling boat, smooth ride, rated for 90hp though has turned me off of them, due to wanting something that can handle more Hp.

Jim , it is all good , and have a great afternoon .

Jim that's a lot of knowledge there...and very appreciated.
thanks

matt wrote:

Also I have been drooling over the Hydrostream (viper) and Sidewinder 16SS .. why not sure .. think it because I was so hooked on the Glastron 150, rode in one and well even thou they are an awesome styling boat, smooth ride, rated for 90hp though has turned me off of them, due to wanting something that can handle more Hp.[/quote] Oh, c'mon, Matt- The James Bond GT-150 had a 135hp Ev on it. And based on some pics on the G-3 forum, not to mention Scream and Fly, HP ratings are only a suggestion, hull design and driver courage determine actual HP ratings. I've seen vids of Vipers with V-6 Mercs hauling the mail!!! You are doing the right thing- asking for and getting opinions. Kudos. Any of the (now) 3 boats you are considering would be a ball with the 150. Do the right thing, take all input into consideration, and let your gut and heart decide. Whichever you choose, we will be behind you.

OOPS. should have previewed first........ sorry.

Jim , the more i think about this....... the more it bother's me ,and just curious why do you feel that i was out of line with A.J. ? Jim ,yes i have been more then polite with the both of you , and yes.... a new thread to continue the Thompson boat subject would have been more appropriate , and just curious are......... you your brothers keeper ?

@ Kerry = I can't imagine 135hp on the GT150, the one I rode in had 85hp and it felt plenty for little he got on it...with three of us in it...

As far as Off shore - A.J and Jim...I have read through the thread and really don't see anything inappropriate..
I do feel maybe there was some disagreement between people who worked for the manufacture if I did understand that correctly...maybe one that worked through the worse of it?

Either way all I was trying to do was compare apples to oranges as Jim suggested, I haven't taken offense to any of it..

As far as history I do that part on my own...when I post questions here I hope for answers by people who may have owned both and can help give a real life comparison

Well, now that everyone's finished being offended. Buy the Viper if'n ya wanna go fast. Sidewinder if ya wanna, arguably, travel with a lil more style ...

71 V153 wrote:

Well, now that everyone's finished being offended. Buy the Viper if'n ya wanna go fast. Sidewinder if ya wanna, arguably, travel with a lil more style ...

hmm, never thought about it that way?
Viper has both if done up nice !! speed n style...those 'Winders are nice too.

its kind of like one of the earlier posts in this thread...its like comparing a blonde and red head...thy're both hot !


ha-ha

Matt , you really need to hop on over to S&F , which will really help you make up your mind .... but ...either way both boats are very good choices ..... Matt ,i have only been here for a very short time , and when it comes down to high performance boats .such as the ones in question this forum lacks B I G - T I M E

OFFSHORE GINGER wrote:

Jim , the more i think about this....... the more it bother's me ,and just curious why do you feel that i was out of line with A.J. ? Jim ,yes i have been more then polite with the both of you , and yes.... a new thread to continue the Thompson boat subject would have been more appropriate , and just curious are......... you your brothers keeper ?[/quote

How do "polite" & "just curious are.... you your brothers keeper ?" fit in the same sentance?

I am done discussing this topic, period.

Jim

FYI They do make original Streams, it's Thundercraft in R.I. They have the 70's style Viking/V-King molds. That is the classic stream design.
Not sure what diffenrnce being remade makes as plenty of real good boats are not made anymore. In my humble opinion, what is re-made is really based on personal preference and a shot at what might sell, rather than superior design.

OFFSHORE GINGER wrote:

Matt , you really need to hop on over to S&F , which will really help you make up your mind .... but ...either way both boats are very good choices .....

I do hop on on S&F from time to time..but to me its hard to navigate around, not as easy as say FG.
I understand that the site is more the go fast people .. but to me its more based on newer models, where I want to a "glassic"

but i think i will tonight jump over there tonight.

Maybe these will help, the yellow one cost me 350.00 I rebuilt the transom and added the 74 1150, 53mph with a 14x18p chopper
blue one was 500.00 and 50.00 for the 71 merc 1150,50mph with a 13.75x23p ss. Both one hell of a ride

what about a late 70's checkmate? The 17'ers are rated for 140-150hp, easy to find and plenty of room. You can get them as closed deck and bow riders and they have windshields.

I had a '74 Sidewinder and loved it. It was the best riding small boat I've ever owned with the power I had on it. With that 85hp Johnson it would do about 37mph with the factory aluminum 13 x 17 prop on it. It was a great boat for water skiing also.

Pony boy Awesome videos.....drooling ....

and Mr.Reeve nice sharp looking Winder! thanks.

Only bad thing about Checkmates (baja) core hulled boats...same bad with Hydros.

matt wrote:

Why is there a certain territory for certain boats?

I would believe it is because boats are sold most in the region they are manufactured. Which means you would not have to go as far to find parts or service. See if you can find our where the boats are made. If you have a factory in your region or more shops that have knowledgeable mechanics, then go with that boat. I have a Commander boat that was made less than 100 miles from me. It's popular in the Los Angeles area. When I restore it, the bone yards have been known to have some laying around. If your not going to look for a parts boat, this point is null. Go for the looks you like.

"Which is more fun" is a personal decision. The fun boat is the one you take on the water every week or two during the season!

I see it's been 2 weeks and you might have made your decision. I wanted to toss in my thoughts on this though, for others reading.

Ciao

nope no decision yet .. seems when I want to pull the trigger something pops up not allowing it...i am watching one that I have contemplated on and now the weekend I could go and fetch...looks like I will need to fill in at work....urg..never fails..maybe its the lords way of telling me I'm crazy!

Ah heck Matt, get one of each.
I have a Sidewinder clone with a bone stock 1350. No T/T. Fun fun.
With some tweaking I am sure it would do better.
I too would like a Hydrostream with a 2.5.
There is a Vasserette with a 2.5 for sale right now in Seattle.
Last time I looked it was $11,000. Jack plate, lower pickup, chopper, the works.
Kind of a noninformative post here other than just to say, go ahead, get one of each and go drive the guts out of 'em!
Neil

Im actualy down to 9 boats....so get them all!!!!

jetboat wrote:

what about a late 70's checkmate? The 17'ers are rated for 140-150hp, easy to find and plenty of room. You can get them as closed deck and bow riders and they have windshields.

J.B. .....you just might want to read my post on page one #44491 why Checks are a very bad choice .

Matt wrote:

Pony boy Awesome videos.....drooling ....

and Mr.Reeve nice sharp looking Winder! thanks.

Only bad thing about Checkmates (baja) core hulled boats...same bad with Hydros.

Matt , i canot tell you how many Checks over the years i have done .......because they added foam to there build using a basic two part foan - 2 lb density that absorb's water like a sponge if not in cell form.......which in some cases is worse then having just a cored boat........... Matt , you just might want to (Check) this site out to help give you a general idea of what foam is appropriate , density , pounds ,and where it should , and can be used . www.uscomposites.com/foam.html which also offers good pricing on materials

with all the argueing (I mean discusson) I missed any comments about Checks

Hey, Dont forget these lil things, 14' and real fast with 100hphttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbIKxHzkEvQ