TOPIC: 1962 Buehler Turbocraft Jet 35 Windshield

Thats interesting and a help for me as I am in the middle of a cam design. Thats a big help; the rpm info. Thanks. I have the main jet
body out of the boat...with the stages together. I also took off the small tapered housing with the diffuser.In the main housing I see the Bronze impeller ( 1st stage) with lots of taper....then a deflector that into a conventional stainless impeller (2nd stage). So two impellers in all.....I would call that a two stage. It looks in pretty good shape...the inpellers turn over smooth. I am afraid to take it any farther apart. I have between .016 and .019 clerance between the blades and wear rings. One of the blades on the stainless impeller looks bent a little. Not sure how to straighten it yet.
So how fast is 5200 RPM ?..did you gps it?
I would like to tap the rear housing or weld a fitting on it to cool the engine. So since its apart I am going to weld a fitting on it to try it. That would clean up the engine bay.
What engine temps do you see?
How big is the cutlass bearing.....I am wondering if you could ditch that bearing and run a ceramic bearing and water cool it...dont have to take the driveshaft off then to run the engine.
Do you have a picture of that bearing?
Thanks for all the info!

I have tried to attach a couple of Pictures I have of the cutlass bearing and where it is located in the housing. The only drawing I have is of the 3 stage pump. If you have the tapered piece off it is easy to take the rest of the pump apart. Take the castle nut off the main shaft remove the stainless impeller, unbolt the main housing and in should slide right off the shaft. I looked at some notes I have, the bearing is only .125 thick 4.135 long. the shaft has a stainless sleeve on it that is also removeable. I have in my notes the the running clearance in my pump is .035 I have a file with pictures of my pump all apart. I can't attach it as it is to large. As to how fast the boat goes at top end (no gps) is around 42 to 45 mph, that is based on the speed of other boats my friends have. I still cool my motor with the sherwood water pump. Had to replace the impellers twice in 20 years, engine temp is between 165 to 185, depends on the outside water temp. I have a tapered rear housing with the fitting in it to cool the motor, I picked it up a couple of years ago just so I would have it. I could take a picure of it if it would help you. When I had trouble finding the bearing I was going to bore out the main housing a install a morse brass shell marine bearing, part no. Q5570.Instead I used the bearing out of the pump I got out of Fl. so I didn't have to go that route, still like to find someone to make me that bearing so I would a spare.

The Buehler drawing is to big to attach, I will see if I can edit it so I can attach it

Do you have an email? I can show you on a you tube how much slop I have....its mostly up and down. Your jet does not have the tapered section in the back? Let me send you some pictures and you can post them if you want. I am not sure I need to take this apart or not. It might be in good shape. So 5200 is about 42 MPH or about 1250 RPM per ten miles per hour. There must be a lot of pump loss or a lot of drag. I saw the you tube that's on this forum and then looked at the same one online and he says it runs 68 MPH ( says its a 406 Small Block. The same boat I assume?.....thats flying if true. People always try and embellish achievements so I would have to see the gps readings. I will show you my entire unit and some of it apart if you send me an email.....

I have an old three stage drawing that came with the boat but the drives are quite different. I have a two stage with a tapered water exit and a clean out port in the front. I was able to get a .035 Feeler gauge on the side of the rearward impeller and a .053 on the up and down position of the blades. So about .018 difference. I have not a clue if this is worn or not. If you turn it from the drive shaft end it feel smooth and you can Grease the front bearing as well. You can move it up and down maybe a 1/8 or less. When you check it the feeler gauge it does not measure what it actually feels like. This is out of my realm of knowledge. When a bearing is out of round in an engine even a thousand thats a problem. When you align hone an engine we are are talking only a couple tenths of a thou.
I cant imagine how that runs true on the wear ring but maybe inertia keeps in the hole. I know they need water to cool so maybe you need that much slop to cool?

I pulled the impeller off and moved the shaft up and down.....from all the way down to all the way or wiggling it up and down you can move it a solid 1/32 to maybe a little more by eye. Hard to measure without a dial indicator which I will do tomorrow, From side to side there is not much movement at all. I guess gravity makes them wear on the down side. I could see where that bearing you mentioned could work. I have no idea what the specification is. You can go by V drives and their cutlass bearings....I Imagine they could get real sloppy due to the nature of the prop not riding on a wear ring..... I can only guess another jet drive would be the same.....

I think you are right about inertia making the impellers center themself in the housing. I would like to see the video of a buehler going 68 mph. I was hoping by putting a 340 in my boat I would get close to 50 mph. I always thought these boats were made more for power to pull skiers than for speed. I'll try to get you my email address, don,t what to post it on this forum page. I attached a Pic. of the pump out of my boat model 75-2C / Assy No. 306 Z Serial No. 5811 I look and see what No. are on the other pump I have I guess my Pic are to big!

Johnny - the boat in that video isn't mine....it was simply to show how these old pumps are still very capable when properly matched with the motor. That particular boat is a '59 or 60 with the older 3-stage. It, supposedly, has a 400hp sbc and tops out at about 68mph. Pretty impressive set up. Those older hulls are much lighter than later Buehlers because, in addition to being small, they have minimal glass, no floatation foam, etc.

Your 2-stage is a robust pump and I wouldn't consider it inefficient. A lot of the performance in newer pumps (Scott Jets for example) is in the nozzles, trim, reverse, etc. I once talked to a guy from Scott Jet to see how realistic (or not) it would be to retrofit one of their nozzles to the back of a Buehler pump. Trim would be nice. As you’ll see when you get out in your boat, the later model Buehler nozzles (the step-gate style) have a zero-angle/flat stream. The early Buehlers, like the one in the video, have a little pitch on the nozzles (hence the roost) so they had some inherent trim. Odds are, Buehler flattened out the stream as part of their attempt to build “ski boats”. To your point about drag, the flat stream certainly doesn’t help.

Popular science tested the Bolero in 1966 (318). They noted that the boat’s “cruising” rpm was 27.84 at 3,200 and top speed was 41.44 at 4,200. It achieved plane at 2,850 rpm and fell off plane at 2,750. Those stats seem to be pretty dead-on with what I’m getting out of my Bolero. As part of their test, they also measured the pumps thrust……which was 1,350 lbs at 4,200.

Johnny - based on what you're saying about your pump and it's play, it couldn't hurt to check the bearings (there are actaully two sandwhiched together). You can still buy them. It's also important to make sure the castle nut on the front of the pump (on the shaft) is tight. When people who don't know jets mess with these pumps, they often go finger-tight on that nut (the way you would on a trailer wheel bearing, for example). That's not the case with these nuts. I want to say it should be 150'ish ft lbs.

I decided not to install a new cutlass bearing.even though there is SOME movement, I don't think it is enough to warrant removal at this time. We have the same pump it looks like..I sent you some pictures. My serial number is 5794Z Same Model and Assembly however. Do you have the cleanout? And from what I gathered your last assembly is not tapered?
There is another tag on the transom and mine reads: Model # 75- TD
Assy 178C Serial # 6420C
Its very easy to make 400 HP out of a 340. If more equates to 68 MPH then its quite easy to do.
I personally would run a Small Block Chevy because the aftermarket is flooded with cheap parts that make big power. I left mine very stock looking including the ugly Chrysler Log Manifolds..the Hi_tek costs around 2300 dollars ....I would invest that only in a chevy. I sent you some pics of my drives

I put the nut back where I took it off....cotter key same position. I could move to the next slot if I put a torque wrench on it...not sure of the torque. If you load the bearing too much you can hurt it too. I wish we had some spec books on this but that information should be readily available I would think. 150 Ft Pounds is more than you put on a Lug Nut with an impact....that would scare me........I have about 40 to 50 pounds on it right now...it sure cannot go anywhere. I marked the nut when I took it off. Its way more than finger tight...I dont think this Jet has ever been touched so it might have been this way from the factory. But it is 40 years old so who really knows for sure.

Interesting information on the jet units. I am now wondering if I have a three stage unit in my 1962 Jet 35. How would one tell? I have the jet unit that has the cable steering and not the step unit that they came out with in 1962-1963. I am looking forward to getting it out on the water to trial. Looks like that will be in the Spring....

Point well taken.....I like the ole rooster tail....pretty cool. Hard to ski behind that...that Jet would soon be known as " Old Facefull"
Thats some interesting info as well on RPM & Speed...captn Kirk gets 5200 out of his and 42-45 MPH. Thats another 1000 rpm ! Thats kind of confusing...what pump do you have and what pump was the POP Sci. test done with?

How long can I go out with the boat with 18 gallons of gas?...know thats scary!

Yeah....that torque number is by memory only. Whatever the actual number was, it was given to me by the former production manager of Buehler and was much higher than I would have expected.

The Popular Science feature also said that they were burning 18 gallons an hour at 4,200. These things are pigs.

Another note on the claimed 68 mph top end in that old 59-60, for all the reasons mentioned (stream angle, weight of later boats, etc.), it would be a lot for any of us to achieve that in the newer boats. That said, Johnny's Caballero stands the best chance at being the smallest of the later model years. If you could fit a Scott nozzle on the back, and get it trimmed up, that would be sweet.

I too was wondering about the 5,200 rpm at top speed. That makes me wonder if the tach is off or if there's some impeller wear. The engine/pump combos in the later boats was similar, in ratio, to competition ski boats.....in that speed-to-rpm is fairly close to 1:1 (eg, 4000 rpm = 40 mph).

As I wrote in my previous post those No. (rpms) were based on a 40 year old tech. as was the speed of my boat. I guess I need to get a Gps and a new Tech. but that will not make my boat go any faster. I would rather spend it on $4.00 a gallon gas so I can drag my grandkid up and down the river

The torque numbers you are talking about are they on the thrust bearing end or on the impeller end I thought my impeller nut was about 50pounds when I took mine apart 20 years ago ( thats what I have in my old Notes) right or wrong thats what I torqued my Impeller at, been working for years

Your notes are probably better than my memory. I remember that, when I replaced my bearnings, I spoke with an ex-Buehler guy as well as Hamilton.....and their numbers were pretty similar.

I've found that there are a few people at Hamilton who are still familiar with the old Buehler units.

I don't know about my notes after 20 years they are kind of hard to make out Lot of water has went down stream since then!!!

I cant imagine 150 foot pounds on the Castle nut out on the end. I took it off and it felt like about 35 or 40 ft pounds. I am getting read to check it back where I took it off....150 ft pounds is a gorilla hanging off of it...Maybe it makes no difference since your not really pre-loading a bearing....just nailing it on the shaft....

Yeah...again, don't quote me on that number. But I'm pretty sure it was a healthy turn. Best bet is to call Hamilton and ask one of their techs. They'll probably tell you that they can't speak directly to your pump's specs....but they'll offer up their specs for a similar pump.

If that nut isn't tight enough, a good over-rev can be enough to back it off slightly (even with the pin). This happened to me and, afterwards, I was sure I'd fried the bearings. Once I hit a certain rpm/load on take off, the pump would make a violent crack/bang. Turned out to be the loose nut, allowing the shaft to move front to back, ever so slightly (hence giving play to everything in between). All those pieces in/on the saft need to be pulled very tightly together.

By the way, I just checked the play on the saft/impellers of my old 3 stage pump and, while it may not be 1/8", it's got a little wiggle.

I put a large wrench on and pushed hard....I did not have a socket that big..all I had was an 1.250 and its bigger than that. I might go purchase a socket and check the torque that was on it since I knew where I took it off at. Not sure if the cotter pin is in where it would back off too? I know 150 would be overkill and might damage something.
Sometimes you can go by the size of the nut....in that case there is a spec which probably approaches 100 pounds.
A little wiggle is what I have about .040.......it feels like more but that's all it is at the impeller.
I pulled the original Mirax tank out and it says 18 gallons. Not much for the pig....
I am going to have Mirax build me another tank and try to squeeze a few more gallons in the tank. Some person bought the company with all the original prints. He is reproducing them in Aluminum to boating standards at a very reasonable price.
I have the original tank if anybody needs one. It should be boiled out and coated.
So how long can I go out on a tank with 18 gallons? ughhh

Johnny, 18 gallons may get used up pretty fast! I was going over my boat this evening and getting my gameplan together. I am stripping it and have started sanding on the deck and hull. Need another hand on taking off the windshield and exhaust tips. Steering wheel assembly and instrument panel will need to be removed with care as well.
I am putting my hit list together to get it ready for paint. I have a close friend that shoots Awlgrip, so that will be my choice of paint. Going with a red deck and white hull. Shooting for October to get it in for the paint. I think I will pulll the 327 CID Gray Marine and give it a good detailing and check everything before reinstalation. I am hoping that the Jet unit will work, they said that it had when they last used the boat. They installed new bearings at that time, so keeping my fingers crosssed!
Finally took some time to go over some of the reading material that came with the boat. Pretty neat stuff that I am glad to share. They include an owners manual, Turbocraft Price listed dated March of 1962, Color brochure for 1963, 1959, parts listing and parts number for 1961 Jet 35 hull model D that includes wiring diagrams, and item numbers that they used. Pretty neat stuff, but nothing that would relate to the later models like the Bolero and Cabellero.

I might be wrong but my pump turns counter clockwise and the nut on the impeller side turn clockwise, which should cause it to get tighter not looser? plus as the pump turns the impeller should try to move forward as it forces water out the back ???

On one of the pumps, I needed to grind down the outside of the socket becuase there was very little room between the nut and the housing. The socket was too thick. If that's hard to picture, I can snap a pic. May not need to go this route depending on the pump.

You seem to be concluding that the nut can't/won't back off.....so I wouldn't worry about it.

You can find PDF's of Hamilton manuals online. Most of the pumps note 70-80 ft lbs as the torque spec for that nut. Some have the rear impeller nut as high as 200.

Hi new to this .also looking for a window for my 1960 jet 35