TOPIC: New To Glassics

Biggest problem I see with 6010 or 11 is people set the machine to hot and keyhole the weld. I've always ran mine colder than most that way I don't have to move much from the puddle and I can see where I've been so I can stack in the next "dime". At one time I ran that rod great.

Pretty sure looking at your engine it was at the same shop one of mine was at and my wiring was a mess also, wire nuts etc. I cleaned it all up too.

Lifted mine off the bench yesterday and set it on the floor for the final outfitting of the alternator, flywheel and starter. The engine is all white but the manifolds I have setup are blue, all my white one's have issues. Might have to paint one white. I'm hoping, weather permiting to possibly lighting this off this weekend.

Good advice on the welding. Our groove weld test is Monday. Verticle up.

I finally primed all the parts today. Tomorrow, I'll take photos of the parts and post them. I called Proline and they have that appliance white color. It's that off white color that most outboards have. I have a sample of that exact color in a spray can. I can't tell you how exciting it is to fire up a motor for the first time, after it's been rebuilt. The sound that it makes when all the parts are new and working together in sync. I still gotta ways to go before I get there.

Like I promised, here are the photos of the primed parts.



Now, here is my next Bearcat project. Like I said before, this motor is hodge podged. This cowling is a real mess. It has to be completely sanded, Bondo'd and repainted. On this hood, I think I won't use epoxy. I'll just use a good quality paint.


I can't figure out why they put some sort of screen on the top and over hung it, then filled it with Bondo. Poorly thought out and executed. Good thing they make a replacement part.

Your advice on welding was great. Any on the verticle up? Smiley face, sad face, saw tooth, zig zag? Or just drag? We're using 7018 so it shouldn't be too hard. I made my own test pad using propylene. That was fun.

Looking good Craig! Boy that hood is messed up but very repairable. I painted the manifold yesterday and will bolt it on shortly. Hopefully at some point this weekend I can move the boat to where I can get at it and replace the existing powerhead with this one and then fire it off.

Best advice I can give you is watch the puddle. Have the amps set so it's not too hot but hot enough to burn in and fill. 7018 takes some getting used to, you need to read what is slag rolling off and what is the actual metal which needs to stay put. I weave it side to side. If your groove butt has a backing strip you need to watch the puddle to make sure you burn into all three plates connecting them. I think the biggest mistake most people make is too much heat. Cooler and hold it longer gives you control.

Good thing I've worked with fiberglass alot. I'm gonna have to use my experience on this one.

Yes, there is a backup strip. It's a standard groove angle (75*) and the test plates are 3/4" apart. Turning the amps down sounds like a good idea and watching the puddle is critical. The tab extends beyond the test plate about an inch, so, there is a starting factor which helps alot. Anyway, the written final is the 9th and there is one more test and that is the mig test, which I'm good at. After this, I'm gonna finish the Bearcat, then start my trailer. I'll probably have to switch over to my trailer thread on that subject. Thanks for the good advice, 4 stroke.

I'm back! What a night mare. My computer crashed a couple of days ago. after I rebooted, I was using my correct username and password, but, I couldn't log on. Anyway, I'm sure Ken Sikora fixed it. Big thanks to Ken for helping me.
I went to the garage and saw the parts after the paint dried. You can see small imperfections in the surface. I took some 400 grit and smoothed it out. Also, the paint was a little orange peely. The primer didn't even show thru. Tomorrow, I'll post some photos. The color is very light beige. I didn't want that light brown color. All I need is some seals and it's assembly time!

I went to the shop, took the upper leg part, sanded with 400, then 600, then 1500, then McGuire's #2 and polished. The transome support has the primer and the leg is the marine top coat. I didn't want Swiss coffee. I just wanted to cut the brightness down. Shiny?

The final exam was a freakin' nightmare. But, as you can see, I passed. Actually, I did well.
"For an NS-3M FCAW, what would the ESO be"?

I set the needle bearing and put the seals in.

I put the water pump housing on the gear box and torqued it down.

I didn't have the proper woodruff key, so I bought one that's close. I'll grind it to fit.

I put the heat protective cloth in and will put another layer tomorrow.

Here is the aluminized pipe I told you about. The guy I bought it from cut the angle for me from the old one. Tomorrow I will drill holes in it and then stick a metal dowel and bend the hole as to create a baffle. I'll post more photos tomorrow. I still need to trim the pipe to fit.

As you can see, I've been working on the Bearcat. The exhaust pipe is finished and fitted to the manifold and the baffle holes are in. I found some oil base enamel and had it matched. The paint that was on there was metallic. I'm not sure, but, metallic paint wasn't used much in the 50's and 60's. I really like this color, too. Tomorrow, I'll put another coat on and nextweek, will start to re-assemble. After the leg and transome are together, I'll start on the motor. That's another chapter.

I thought about it for awhile and decided to alter the color pattern a little. I wanted to carry the scheme from the upper leg to the motor pan. Somehow, the motorpan being a different color than the outboard leg seemed dull. The transome unit is finished and the yoke is, too. I will probably leave the yoke blue with the rest, I'm not sure. I was thinking of dividing the yoke in half. The part the touches the leg, white, and the rest blue, I'm not sure. I can turn the shafy by hand and the shifter works fine. I was a little worried about it locking up.

This is where I'm at now. The motor mount I made worked out great. I'll start working on the motor now.

Looking good Craig! I stuck with the original "F model" blue, it's original paint except the lower gearcase housing which I painted. The hood came from the last purchased parts engine, was painted by Tim McCrain with new decals, and as you know the powerhead itself is white. Not perfect, not original but it looks decent and is clean. Not a ton of $$ into cosmetics on this one.

That engine you have, is exactly the way I want mine to look. However, I didn't want the leg unit blue. I tore into the motor today. The valve arrangement is different than a regular motor.

As you can see from right to left, the 2nd port is intake for no. 1 & 2 cyl. The 5th port is for no. 3 & 4 cyl. Unusual layout, but, consider this. Each two cyl's., has it's own carburator. I busted some screws taking off the exhaust muffler. Good thing I have the tap for that size thread. When I'm done with this motor, I'll fire it up and then set it aside and start the trailer.

Not uncommon to break the two middle long bolts on the manifold, I'm batting about .500 on those. Been never siezing the crap out of them on reassembly. If you pull the water jacket covers be prepared to bust some of them too. Go slow and easy working them out then back in and you might get lucky. I did on most of them.

Deja Vu! That'a what I did today. I pulled the manifold off and broke 4 bolts. They're already repaired. 1/4-20. I picked up the tap and drill Sunday. The two large manifold bolts came out, no problem. Actually the bolts that broke were the water jacket bolts. Most of the paint is starting to peel of, so, I'm gonna wire wheel the the motor and spray it with the same color engine paint you used. I was thinking about two things. One, is to remove the flywheel to clean and paint it. And the other is to re-wire the motor. It's probably not necessary to take the flywheel off, since I don't have a puller and the stater works fine. The wiring was a joke. The solenoid was actually mounted to the motor and if I'm correct, should be in the harness box inside the boat. Anyway, I'll be back at it tomorrow, wire brushing the motor and painting it.

CraigLam wrote:

The wiring was a joke. The solenoid was actually mounted to the motor and if I'm correct, should be in the harness box inside the boat.

My second Bearcat's wiring was also a joke, wires hanging out all over and splices with wire nuts. Somewhere I have pictures of before and after. The solenoids are mounted on the block on all of them. Mounted on the water jacket cover with the exception of the first year which mounts on plate that is mounted on the block. There is no harness box outside of the engine.

I had and old 59 Merlin where there was a harness box on the inside mounted on the transome. The solenoid was where you said it was, on the water jacket. The rectifier is the after market one, it doesn't look like the one in the manual. However, it does work and I'm making a special bracket to mount it on the two long thin studs on the water jacket. Other than that, it's pretty much just getting all the old paint off and re-painting. The cowling is gonna need some serious work. Your motor is looks very nice. I gotta a ways to go before i get there.

CraigLam wrote:

I had and old 59 Merlin where there was a harness box on the inside mounted on the transom.

Your motor is looks very nice. I gotta a ways to go before i get there.

Some have a harness box, but these don't. just hook the harness from the controls to the terminal strip and you're good to go.

Thanks for the compliment, it's not perfect but looks clean.
Found pictures of the "F" engine before and after I cleaned up the wiring. Also found a picture of my '61 with the solenoid mounted on the plate attached to the block.


The before


The after

Wow! Nice pictures. The intake and exhaust manifolds are off and cleaned. I'm wondering whether or not to have them hot tanked or dip them in Berryman my self. I'm gonna need Berryman anyway when I do the carbs. Right now I'm wire brushing the motor. I like the ivory colored one. I really didn't like the blue motor. The setup looks great. When I get there, I have the manuel and I'll follow that for the re-wiring. It even tells you what color and size to use. I'm also gonna leave the motor off until I adjust the valves. Then I'll put the motor on and re-assemble-it'll be lighter. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

I found the "before" wiring photo and edited it into the post below.

I didn't clean my manifold, intake side was clean and exhaust just had a light coating of soot, figuring it would just soot back up. To me it's not worth the effort.

The fellow I bought the "F" engine from took it to Ed in Redding where it was fitted with the electric fuel pump, Pertronix ingnition, and painted a darker blue. I've been removing the dark blue paint as I want this back to the original blue color. The pump will be replaced with a mechanical, the white flywheel, distributor bracket and white starter (not shown in the picture) will all be replaced with the correct original blue parts. Not sure yet whether I will use the correct hood on this as they are so plain looking.

Wise move on adjusting the valves, much easier with the powerhead on the bench!

I can't believe what I did. I thought that the water inlet pipe went on after the motor pan. Wrong! After I tried to fit the tube down thru the upper leg, I finally figured out that it wasn't going to fit. So, I went to OSH and they had exactly the same size copper bendable pipe that the inlet tube is. Also the pipe was sitting right next to the muffler, which I thought was not a great design. I'm going to feed the pipe thru the grommet, down the leg, thru the hole and into the outlet port on top of the impellor housing. Then I will bend it over more towards the aft end of the leg, away from the muffler and then cut the top to size. I'll definitely take photos of this. I mic'd the original pipe. It's .500+. The copper pipe is .513. The old pipe fits a little loose. The new pipe should fit perfect. If there is any trouble with this, I can cut a 3" section and braze onto the new pipe. I have a flaring tool for this. I'll let you know how it turns out. Interesting cooling system how water is pumped to each side and then out thru the exhaust manifold.

This is where I'm at right now. I finally figured out to drop the lower unit and slip the pipe in from there. All I'm doing now is to remove all the old paint from the block and the accessories, and then spray it with Ivory engine paint. Probably be a while before I fire up the motor. I'll post some progress photos.

I finally found a Welder that I like. It's the Thermal Arc 161S. It's both 115V and 230V. At 115V, I can weld up to 110 amps with 3/32 or even 1/8 rod. To weld anything, I prefer stick over mig. It's what I learned on. About $600.00 Finally, I can now plan to start my trailer. I still have to finish assembling my motor. I was going to post a picture of the welder, but, it won't transfer from photobucket. Turn and Burn!

Hey, it posted! Well that's my new welder. Uses mostly 3/32" rods 6011 and 7018. Also sets up for tig. Notice the ground clamp. I should get it in about 7 days, if something doesn't go wrong, which it probably will. On 220V it welds up to 160 amp! Nice. I can use 1/8" rods.

we generally use Miller equipment at work. we use a seperate wire feed unit with a power supply. this serves most of our purposes. we have a dozen welders set up with Miller Mig units and Miller power supplies. we also have two welders at work that use a thermal arc unit as a power source for the Miller MIG unit. about them... they never seem to run right. ours always have issues with consistent power levels and something about them never seems right. not saying yours will do the same though. ours are well used, heavily abused and not really well taken care of. plus, they're set up for industrial, 460V use, unlike yours. but, of all the welders we have, thermal arc is the ONLY brand that consistenly causes us issues.

take VERY good care of yours and maintain it properly, please. i'd hate to see you have issues with it. some brands you can skimp on... Thermal Arc doesn't seem to be one of them, in my experience.

just my 2 cents.

-Chris

When I took my welding class at Cerritos college, we also used the Miller Mac 8 pak. I believe it was the XMT 350. Very expensive. The welding I'll do will never be anywhere near the amount of welding I did in college. The reviews are good and I plan to take good care of it, as with all my tools. It also has the feature of 115V or 230V and comes with an adapter chord. Most of my projects will be hobby oriented. Making a rack for my van, fixing the BBq, and a project I'm looking forward to. My trailer! I'm also making a trailer for my bike. The wife and I are going to "The Strand". A bike trail here in Cal. that's a 17 mile trip up the Hermosa Beach coast. When I get my welder, I'll post photos of my projects.

I finall got around to setting the valve clearances. What a night mare. With the shims I had, most did the trick. I came up with an idea, not unique I suppose. I went to the auto supply store to buy a feeler guage set. I already had a nice digital caliper. I measured all the valves as to their gap, removed the cam, measured the shims and adjusted the clearances accordingly. I trimmed the particular feeler guage I needed to a round disc that made up the difference, but only one per valve along with the existing shim. It worked. The intakes are .013 and the exhausts are .016. I can turn the flywheel by hand, no problem(plugs are out). Now to reassemble and start the electrical wiring. I still need to rebuild the carbs-later.

Oh yeah adjusting valves on these is my favorite job too

I see you bought a welder, good deal. In our shop we used mainly Lincoln welders, had a few Millers. The only Thermal products we used were plasma cutters and they seemed to work fine. I have all Lincoln products here at home.

Today, I order my welder. After I finish my motor assembly, I'm headed down to Benner Steel in L.A. and pick up the channel. I went to trailer parts.com and found this design. I've had the Tee Nee type and didn't really like it. I'm still a little undecide whether to get a mig or stick. But, I think I'm going to stay with stick. That type will also do tig, which mig won't do. It will also convert to 230V and pump the amps to 160 amps. With that I can weld with 1/8" rods. I can also get the tongue from HF. The plans are $25.00

Hey Craig, there's an excellent thread to read about building a trailer over on CGOA. It starts (the first page or two) about the Carlson and lifting it off the trailer, but from there on it's "Trailer Fabrication 101"! Must be some good study material,or maybe redundant since you just finished welding school, but just a thought?
www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6269

WOW! Sweet boat. I appreciate the heads up. After all this searching, I've changed my mind on the welder. In the back of my mind, the inverter technology just didn't sound right. So, I called the seller and he explained to me that an inverter cannot weld aluminum. If you want a welder that does it all for the money, the Lincoln SP 140T mig welder. I know I went to welding school and learned how to stick, but, mig is cleaner, no slag, no arc blow, and more continuous. With a spool gun you can weld aluminum and SS and it runs on 110V. So, it should be here in 7 to 10 days. I was surprised to read that this mig welder can weld 5/16" steel in a single pass. Anyway, thanks again for the heads up.

I'm having some problems with photobucket. I can't access the collage part. Anyway, I made a flywheel puller for about 10 bucks. I'm tired of renting tools whenever I need one. I'll just post a few of the pictures. Amazing how someone would slosh paint on a charging unit. There was paint everywhere. The puller worked great. No surprise, the flywheel was off TDC by a few teeth.

First flywheel I tried to remove I ruined my cheap puller, it had coarse threads and would not pop it off the crankshaft. It was a Sunday afternoon and the only place open was Harbor Freight so I bought their $9.95 puller. It was better with fine threads and did the job and many others using a 1/2" air impact gun with no problem. I broke it once on a job that even a good one probably would have broke and they replaced it at no charge.

I see you removed the magnet ring from your flywheel, I hope you marked it so it goes back on exactly as it came off as the whole unit is a balanced unit. If you look in the parts book it shows it as such. Personally I would have left it assembled.

I knew you were going to ask me that!. Yes, I marked it. There is so much crud on these parts, I had no choice. I put a deep mark where the balance holes line up with the mark. No problem.

I need an opinion. I know that there really isn't an issue with paint. I'm trying to clean the motor. With all the nooks and crannys, it's next to impossible. The spark plug hols are blocked off and the intake and exhaust ports are covered and taped. All that is showing, is the metal. I bought some soda to blast the paint down to bare metal. On low pressure, I can restore this motor to it's original finish. Sand is unavailable in Cal. AQMD won't allow it. I'm gonna spray the motor with etching primer, then the heat resistant paint, off white color. Any other suggestion to restore the finish?

I found it! It's called Surface Prep Solutions. The media I'm getting is called power blast. It contains no silica or sand. ??
On low pressure, it will remove all the old paint, rust, whatever and leave the surface metal in new condition. I'll have to put on etching primer since new metal tends to rust quickly. I had a sand blaster long ago. I used it for everything. It'll be good for prep welding, for mig won't weld thru paint or rust. 6010 stick will, but, I've been down that road. After everything is cleaned, I'll post some updated photos.

Good to hear you marked it. When I painted mine, which was only the block and manifold, I cleaned it, chipped the paint off around the rust areas, wire brushed and painted with enamel from a bomb can. Didn't find any high temp in the color I wanted so used just regular paint. When I had the infrared thermometer on a running engine the hottest I found was around 130 degrees. On all of the engines I've had apart the only discolored paint I've seen was on the exhaust right where it exits into the pan and that was only a couple, most weren't discolored even there.

You'd be surprised at what mig will weld through, in the marine industry other than new construction everything is rusty and in new construction schedules must be met and painting is always done before it should then we have to weld over paint. All this and they must pass an ABS or Coast Guard inspection. School welding is nothing like the real world and it's unfortunate. Most of the fresh out of school welders from the college courses we hire don't make it, they need experience with clean metal for a few years. I've often thought it would be a good idea if the schools picked up some our rusty scrap to practice on. There are so many choices of wire with many superior to others when welding the crap we are expected to repair. The best schooled welders we've hired come from the Job Corps at Tongue Point, OR. Your schooling will be just fine for you trailer building. I'm not criticizing the schools just stating facts from 38 yrs in the marine industry. Maybe they should offer an advanced rusty steel course.

Your absolutely correct. We did, however, have a bin outside the classroom that was filled with rusty metal pieces. That doesn't take the place of actual job experience. All the advanced students who were hired out of our school, did great, though. I'm so excited about getting my welder. If it ever gets here! I tracked it and it hasn't even been checked in at the arrival post office yet. Oh well.
Big question. The water jackets on this motor, according to the history of this motor I've been reading about, was coated with some type of enamel. ?? Most of it is chipping away. What would you suggest to re-coat that with. Oh, by the way, OSH has a heat resistant paint that is used for barbeques. It's called Appliance White. Looks very close to Bearcat white.

A few things going on. I bought a siphon blasting gun from HF. It works really good. I'm also going to get one of their solderless connector kits when I start to rewire the motor. By the way, photobucket changed their program. It's called Pixlr. Nice program, a little confusing. Anyway, my welder's coming tomorrow and hopefully the delivery company won't throw it over the fence like all those tv's. I'm seriously considering making a motor mount to bolt to the frame of my garage. It will make it easier to work on and keep it out ou the way.

So. I called Fedex to see about what time my welder is going to be delivered. She said the driver is right around the corner. It's finally here.


My cat has to inspect everything. The voltage control is the reostat type, so, I can dial in what I want. Very heavy, 65 lbs. I'll probably pick up a bottle next month. HF has one that meets U.S. standards for about $84.00