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TOPIC: More ethanol carnage to be aware of

More ethanol carnage to be aware of 1 week 1 day ago #140655

I see this periodically, even though the owner is adamant he has not used ethanol,...Since he has owned the boat.
It is just another thing to consider replacing if you "think" your fuel system has had ethanol in it in the past.
Besides fuel hoses, fuel pump valves and diaphragms, carburetor floats, float needles and seats, seals, o-rings, etc ,etc, etc,...Check out what the evil stuff does to the prime bulb.
As you squeeze the bulb particles similar in appearance to black pepper break free and head for your filters & carburetors.
Just something else to add to your list of things to replace when purifying your fuel system.
doc

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 1 week 19 hours ago #140657

  • 63 Sabre
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Yuuup. Replaced a fuel pump three weeks ago, (thanks Dr. Go.) on an OMC the diaphragm wasn't shredded but was so soft and floppy. Worked but the motor ran poorly.

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 1 week 16 hours ago #140661

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Unfortunately, around here, finding gas without ethanol is about as easy as finding unleaded. I have to drive 10+ miles to get it at a place where pulling a boat up to the pumps isn't easy. I wonder where they find leaded 100 octane gas for restored WWII fighters...and where can I score some?

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 1 week 7 hours ago #140670

Nautilus wrote: Unfortunately, around here, finding gas without ethanol is about as easy as finding unleaded. I have to drive 10+ miles to get it at a place where pulling a boat up to the pumps isn't easy. I wonder where they find leaded 100 octane gas for restored WWII fighters...and where can I score some


PureGas is your friend. Be sure to be a good citizen and post when you find a source that isn't listed.

PS: I found some of the "pepper" around my fuel pump sight bowl gasket and the manifold and float bowl gaskets on my carbs the other day. I've never used anything but Clear and Evinrude 2T oil in it since I got it. But as mentioned, years of abuse. BTW, my diagram was dried and cracked when I pulled it yesterday, suspecting that's what was keeping my Speedifour from starting. Then I promptly dropped the bowl and broke it. Thank heavens for eBay!

FWIW, Clear is the same price as premium here. 3/4 of my vehicles require premium. I've found that I can use 88 Clear w/Techron just fine. I even get 3-5mog better mileage running it.

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 1 week 7 hours ago #140671

Dr_Frankenmerc wrote: I see this periodically, even though the owner is adamant he has not used ethanol,...Since he has owned the boat.
It is just another thing to consider replacing if you "think" your fuel system has had ethanol in it in the past.
Besides fuel hoses, fuel pump valves and diaphragms, carburetor floats, float needles and seats, seals, o-rings, etc ,etc, etc,...Check out what the evil stuff does to the prime bulb.
As you squeeze the bulb particles similar in appearance to black pepper break free and head for your filters & carburetors.
Just something else to add to your list of things to replace when purifying your fuel system.
doc


Good catch. As I was going through my boat and removing the 35 gal Auxillary tank in it (?!?!?!? Planning on taking your Catalina to Hawaii????) I found a brand new fuel line setup still in plastic. But your pic is also why I always run one of those clear plastic fuel filter jobbies about 6" upstream of the motor.

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 1 week 7 hours ago #140672

Nautilus wrote: Unfortunately, around here, finding gas without ethanol is about as easy as finding unleaded. I have to drive 10+ miles to get it at a place where pulling a boat up to the pumps isn't easy. I wonder where they find leaded 100 octane gas for restored WWII fighters...and where can I score some?


PS: If you really want 100LL, every smal airport has it. They may not let you drive in to get it, but they'll certainly let you carry in gas cans.

Back before I replaced the valve seats in my '72 BMW MC, I used to use it all the time. There was one fuel distributor in Denver that had it in their pumps (Phillips 66 out on South Sante Fe) but otherwise I'd just ride in to an airport and fill up. (Pre-9/11, before the FAA was part of Homeland (in)Security)

But, be prepared to pay through the nose for it. Last I checked it was ~$8.99/gal.

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 1 week 2 hours ago #140677

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When I find stations with both ethanol fuel and high octane ethanol free, I make sure their pumps don’t share a single hose drop for 3 fuels because the hose is most likely still filled with the previous customers ethanol fuel and you will still get some. I buy from stations that have a separate hose drop for only non ethanol high octane of 92 or 93. Only a couple stations here have 100 for high performance stuff, but like was said earlier... airports usually have that 100 LL. Maybe you have a small GA general aviation public airport that you could obtain that higher octane ethanol free fuel if needed. Not sure what the 12 cylinder lafrance would run on... something from NASA probably - lol since there are 24 spark plugs and no longer naturally aspirated.

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Dr.Go!

More ethanol carnage to be aware of 1 week 1 hour ago #140678

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Something I ran across. www.google.com/amp/s/generalaviationnews.com/2011/03/16/10-mogas-myths/amp/ Also Doc - thanks for posting that picture. We should have taken a picture of Mom’s pump ball on the used pontoon she got. Rubber tore loose and blocked the fuel line. New hose and no ethanol fuel since then and no problems.

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 1 week 1 hour ago #140680

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63 Sabre wrote: Yuuup. Replaced a fuel pump three weeks ago, (thanks Dr. Go.) on an OMC the diaphragm wasn't shredded but was so soft and floppy. Worked but the motor ran poorly.


in both the midwest and the northeast (used to NEVER be able to get it there), there is increasing access to non ethanol gas. this is a pretty good site on who has it, not necessarily complete. there are other sites too

www.pure-gas.org/

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 1 week 1 hour ago #140681

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dlearl476 wrote:

Nautilus wrote: Unfortunately, around here, finding gas without ethanol is about as easy as finding unleaded. I have to drive 10+ miles to get it at a place where pulling a boat up to the pumps isn't easy. I wonder where they find leaded 100 octane gas for restored WWII fighters...and where can I score some?


PS: If you really want 100LL, every smal airport has it. They may not let you drive in to get it, but they'll certainly let you carry in gas cans.

Back before I replaced the valve seats in my '72 BMW MC, I used to use it all the time. There was one fuel distributor in Denver that had it in their pumps (Phillips 66 out on South Sante Fe) but otherwise I'd just ride in to an airport and fill up. (Pre-9/11, before the FAA was part of Homeland (in)Security)

But, be prepared to pay through the nose for it. Last I checked it was ~$8.99/gal.


i've been to several antique outboard shows where multiple people there ran av gas. they enjoyed no worries of the gas ever going bad and likely far better quality ingredients throughout than anything coming out of a pump at a gas station. i'm really not sure that the 2 strokes run their best on it, but they ran. better at high speeds than low

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 6 days 19 hours ago #140682

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 6 days 2 hours ago #140690

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Some good points in that article. However if you are running an old engine, with old gaskets, plastic parts, hoses etc, the Ethanol will deteriorate them. But if you rebuild with new reformulated hoses, gaskets, etc it won't because all the new stuff is designed to be alcohol resistant. The USCG, ABYC and SAE changed the formulations for hoses way back in the 87 or 88. (Memory is the first thing to go, what was I saying? Oh Yeah) The OEM hoses for portable tanks were changed too in the 90's to be more alcohol and UV resistant. However, as pointed out 10% is a pipe dream. The USCG tested fuels from randomly selected gas stations including marine gas station in the NE US in the 80's and even back then there was far more than 10% in the fuel. Pumps are supposed to be labeled if there is more than 10% but what gas station ever actually tests the gas. They are too busy selling it.
Actually the test is simple. All you need is a test tube or a small glass. Put in some gas, add some water, shake and let stand for 15 minutes. If there is alcohol in fuel it will separate and you will see a layer of water on the bottom.

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Peter D. Eikenberry
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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 6 days 35 minutes ago #140691

Well,...SOME of the changes to fuel hose hasn't resulted in a better product.
doc

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 5 days 18 hours ago #140692

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I've run into that problem. Seems the inner lining of the hose separates from the outside and collapses blocking flow.
There is a clear blue colored fuel line I used before but like Ike said...can't remember where I got it, probably from an auto store. The clear plastic line sold in box stores bulk works but I don't know what the safety standards are for it and it stiffens up after a year or so.

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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 5 days 16 hours ago #140695

  • Ike
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Look at the label on the hose. It says USCG type A1-15 . That's the new (really new) EPA hose. The blue liner was meant to reduce permeation of evaporative emissions to the new (actually since 2012) EPA standard. Prior to that the hose jut said USCG type A1. The difference is the rate of permeation. What that all means is that some gasoline vapors actually migrate through the wall of the hose into the atmosphere. The old Coast Guard standard was only intended to keep the amount way below the lower explosive limit which was 300 mg per 24 hr. EPA reduced that to 15 mg per 24 hr. Most hose manufacturers just added an inner lining which made the hose a lot stiffer and blocked vapors from permeating through the walls.

I don't know if you can still find the older hose labeled USCG Type A1. ( there is also USCG Type B1 but that is a different issue) . The A1 is the alcohol resistant hose that was introduced in the late 1980's.

As far as the clear plastic hose, it should never be used on an inboard. It doesn't meet any specs for fire resistance. A1 hose has to withstand a fire for 2 1/2 minutes. (B1 does not) And the clear stuff doesn't meet any of the other standards for EPA or SAE marine hose. I can however be used on outboards because the USCG standards don't apply to outboards. But the ABYC standards do. Oddly enough the OEM hose and bulbs that come with your outboards are not regulated by the Coast Guard. They are now regulated by EPA for emissions, but they do not have to meet USCG standards for fire resistance. Reality, most of them met at least the B1 standard which is the same as A1 except for the fire resistance and were treated for UV resistance.

Probably more than you ever wanted to know about marine hose. Oh yeah, all those other numbers have meaning too. If you want to know?

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Peter D. Eikenberry
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More ethanol carnage to be aware of 4 days 10 hours ago #140711

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Had to look a few bulbs Doc. All been ETH run, but seem OK? Last one off a old Merc. Maybe I'm just lucky (and none these ran or used my boats, but motors got cheap or free for parts to EBay) but so far I been lucky my stuff!

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